High Tail Set

[novatech]

There always seems to be some comment about "high tail set" on a lot of the cows and bulls shown on the boards. So I decided to research it a bit.
A high tail set with an angular pelvis can cause calving problems. Makes scents.
On the other hand some breeds advertise the fact that they have calving ease because of the high tail set.
So the problem must be the angular pelvis. So how do you know which is which by just looking at the tail set or is there something to look at? Maybe the angle of the tail set?

 

[Jake]

It is quite simple to loook at the angle of the pelvis by looking at the angle from hooks to pins. I would illustrate with a picture but I am on my smartphone

 

[novatech]

It is quite simple to loook at the angle of the pelvis by looking at the angle from hooks to pins. I would illustrate with a picture but I am on my smartphone

Thanks, that is something I guess I new in the back of my head but really didn't identify it. The downward slope of the rump in Brahman are a good example. I just don't see the problem when it is simply placed on high tail set, which is also what a lot of Brahman have. The reverse of this angle, hook to pen upward slope would have a high tail set and could cause calving problems. I don't see a lot of those.
So a bad pelvic angle will usually have a high tail set but a high tail set does not necessarily mean it has a bad pelvic angle?
To go one step further a high tail set associated with a downward pelvic angle would indicate greater pelvic area thus better calving ease?
I may have to rethink my criteria for what I have always preferred. I have always liked the more level tail set. Aesthetically it was just more pleasing, but in reality a high tail set with the downward sloping pelvis has a purpose.

 

[3waycross]

Here is a picture of one of my cows with what some would consider a fairly high tailset and what I consider a decent angle from her hooks to her pins. She squirts em out like butter.

Another GV heifer with the same traits. She calved a 78pounder with no help at all. To me she is more toward leval in her angle.

Gelbvieh's in particular seem to have a bit higher tailset. I don't see it as a problem in my herd anyway!

 

[Old_man_emu]

would it be fair to say that in most circumstances it's just people nit picking?
I have read comments about a bull on here that supposedly had a high tail, the owner later pointed out he was holding his tail up after having a vet take a seamen sample.
I'm sure there are times when it is a problem but I think most cases on here are over diagnosed.
Just my :2cents:

 

[HOSS]

Here is a picture of one of my cows with what some would consider a fairly high tailset and what I consider a decent angle from her hooks to her pins. She squirts em out like butter.

Another GV heifer with the same traits. She calved a 78pounder with no help at all. To me she is more toward leval in her angle.

Gelbvieh's in particular seem to have a bit higher tailset. I don't see it as a problem in my herd anyway!

Send that bottom cow out to me 3way, she is my kind of cow!

 

[3waycross]

She failed to breedback after being moved from a fall calver to spring. I AI'd her in April and exposed her to my bull until 8/1/11. She then ran with an Angus bull and two yearling herf bull till 10/1/11. She pregged open a month ago and is now employed at McDonalds.

 

[KNERSIE]

She failed to breedback after being moved from a fall calver to spring. I AI'd her in April and exposed her to my bull until 8/1/11. She then ran with an Angus bull and two yearling herf bull till 10/1/11. She pregged open a month ago and is now employed at McDonalds.

I was going to mention when the tailhead creeps up onto the back its usually an indication of lower fertility, but she had already proved this to be true.

The prominent tailset of baboon tail as we call it here is often associated with shorter harder muscle and although not really appealing doesn't cause any problems in my opinion unless its a severe case where injuries to the tailhead may result during breeding. As has been said before by Jake, a SLIGHT slope from hooks to pins is prefered for calving and cleaning purposes, too much slope and you loose rump length and retail product. A sloping rump is an indicus trait, not a taurus trait.

 

[Old_man_emu]

isn't it a pretty big jump to say that black cow didn't breed back because she has a high tail when it could have been ANY number of other reasons?
How does tail set impact on fertility?

 

[fitz]

would it be fair to say that in most circumstances it's just people nit picking?
I have read comments about a bull on here that supposedly had a high tail, the owner later pointed out he was holding his tail up after having a vet take a seamen sample.
I'm sure there are times when it is a problem but I think most cases on here are over diagnosed.
Just my :2cents:

I agree. However, after reading so much about tail set I was putting out hay the other day and found myself studying the tail on several heifers. But as Knersie stated, If real prominent, I think most folks would notice and may shy away from it.

fitz

 

[Old_man_emu]

isn't it a pretty big jump to say that black cow didn't because she has a high tail when it could have been ANY number of other reasons?
How does tail set impact on fertility?

 

[Old_man_emu]

would it be fair to say that in most circumstances it's just people nit picking?
I have read comments about a bull on here that supposedly had a high tail, the owner later pointed out he was holding his tail up after having a vet take a seamen sample.
I'm sure there are times when it is a problem but I think most cases on here are over diagnosed.
Just my :2cents:

I agree. However, after reading so much about tail set I was putting out hay the other day and found myself studying the tail on several heifers. But as Knersie stated, If real prominent, I think most folks would notice and may shy away from it.

fitz

I do believe that is exist thats and that in some cases it is a bad thing,
but i also think some peoples comments here are a bit extremist!

 

[KNERSIE]

isn't it a pretty big jump to say that black cow didn't because she has a high tail when it could have been ANY number of other reasons?
How does tail set impact on fertility?

Read what I wrote!

I said its USUALLY a good indication of lower fertility, I never said its the cause of lower fertility.

Do a search on the subject, years of research has proven it to be the case, its not merely my opinion.

 

[Old_man_emu]

isn't it a pretty big jump to say that black cow didn't because she has a high tail when it could have been ANY number of other reasons?
How does tail set impact on fertility?

Read what I wrote!

I said its USUALLY a good indication of lower fertility, I never said its the cause of lower fertility.

Do a search on the subject, years of research has proven it to be the case, its not merely my opinion.

I'm sorry,
it would appear as though i'm the one making the jump!
I do have a tendency to need to experience or study things for myself.
I have plenty of time at the moment, I've been flat on my back for 13 days with a bad back now and it doesn't look like going away. I will put my time to good use and do some read on the subject. I really think staring at the roof all day is making me go :banana: :banana:

 

[3waycross]

She failed to breedback after being moved from a fall calver to spring. I AI'd her in April and exposed her to my bull until 8/1/11. She then ran with an Angus bull and two yearling herf bull till 10/1/11. She pregged open a month ago and is now employed at McDonalds.

I was going to mention when the tailhead creeps up onto the back its usually an indication of lower fertility, but she had already proved this to be true.

The prominent tailset of baboon tail as we call it here is often associated with shorter harder muscle and although not really appealing doesn't cause any problems in my opinion unless its a severe case where injuries to the tailhead may result during breeding. As has been said before by Jake, a SLIGHT slope from hooks to pins is prefered for calving and cleaning purposes, too much slope and you loose rump length and retail product. A sloping rump is an indicus trait, not a taurus trait.

If you have a link to that study I would like to read it. Could you please post the link....Thanks

 

[TexasBred]

isn't it a pretty big jump to say that black cow didn't because she has a high tail when it could have been ANY number of other reasons?
How does tail set impact on fertility?

Read what I wrote!

I said its USUALLY a good indication of lower fertility, I never said its the cause of lower fertility.

Do a search on the subject, years of research has proven it to be the case, its not merely my opinion.

1000 to 1 odds that study did not include holsteins.

 

[regolith]

isn't it a pretty big jump to say that black cow didn't because she has a high tail when it could have been ANY number of other reasons?
How does tail set impact on fertility?

Read what I wrote!

I said its USUALLY a good indication of lower fertility, I never said its the cause of lower fertility.

Do a search on the subject, years of research has proven it to be the case, its not merely my opinion.

1000 to 1 odds that study did not include holsteins.

I'd be interested to know if it did.
I've been suspicious for years that an upward slope to the rump (I don't really notice tailset) is linked to lower fertility.

 

[TexasBred]

I'd be interested to know if it did.
I've been suspicious for years that an upward slope to the rump (I don't really notice tailset) is linked to lower fertility.

Might make breeding a bit "less convenient" if you're using natural service.