Herford X Simmental

[aplusmnt]

I know the Herford X Angus is a great cross but wonering how the Herford X Simmental (black) works out? Anyone use this cross? Wodering what to expect from it.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The Hereford breed does NOT carry the diluter gene, so if you breed to a Homozygous black Simmental bull, you will get 100% black calves, probably with white in places like a Hereford, may only be white on face.
If the black Simmental bull is Heterozygous black, you have a 50/50 chance of getting red or black. Still a good cross. Color is only a marketing tool. Doesn't make an animal any better or worse.

 

[jkwilson]

The Hereford breed does NOT carry the diluter gene...

I'm pretty sure there are a few Herefords that do carry the diluter gene. One of the last few issues of Hereford World had a small article on it. I have no idea if it's one-in-a-million or what, but it does exist.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Well, like in a previous discussion - there could be "slipped in" simmental genes that carried the diluter gene.

 

[El_Putzo]

Well, like in a previous discussion - there could be "slipped in" simmental genes that carried the diluter gene.

C'mon now Jeane, lets not start that discussion up again so soon. Give us at least a month or so.

 

[dun]

I see no reason why Simmenthal X Hereford wouldn;t be as good of a cross as Gelbvieh X Hereford (my idea of the perfect cow). The only problem that might crop up is the frame creep problem in replacements

dun

 

[El_Putzo]

I've got 2 herefords due this spring to a LBW black simme, not my first choice of bulls for these two, but I think the calves will do OK. I'll post some pics and weights when they are born and as they grow. I'm quite positive that someone on this board has such a cross already. I'd be interested in seeing some pics of some of the possible color patterns and such.

 

[certherfbeef]

Here is some pics James reguested. Hope he was refering to me. If not, I apologize for butting into the conversation.

Hereford cow and Black simmy bull

Same black simmy bull and different hereford cow

Old style simmy cow (fleck) and hereford bull

chifer cow and same black simmy bull as the top 2

I get anywhere from solid black to all black with a dot on their heads to red baldies to hereford looking out of my hereford cows and a black simmy bull. Only thing I havn't gotten is a black baldy and I can't explain it. I have some heifers AIed to a Meyer 734 son. Those calves will be here in mid march.
I really like my simmy herf cross. I love the hybred vigor. The out grow my pure herf calves and are running circles around them with in 2 hours of hitting the ground.

 

[El_Putzo]

Nice calves Cert. I wasn't specifically talking to you as I had forgotten you had some simme's. Glad you posted though. I particularly like the looks of that first calf. I'm guessing your black simme bull is heterozygous black? Homo black shouldn't throw any red correct?

 

[cypressfarms]

Nice calves Cert!

I like the last two the best. Do you think they would want to come down to warm and balmy Louisiana to eat some nice ryegrass for the winter? Supposed to be 70 tomorrow.

 

[certherfbeef]

Nice calves Cert. I wasn't specifically talking to you as I had forgotten you had some simme's. Glad you posted though. I particularly like the looks of that first calf. I'm guessing your black simme bull is heterozygous black? Homo black shouldn't throw any red correct?

James, the black simmy bull is just a mut. Out of a hereford marked chifer cow and meyer 734. I was quite shocked the year most of my calves out of him were hereford looking.
Thanks for the compliments. The top calf is bred to a black simmy bull due to calve in march. She will get a red angus for next year's calf. What color do you think that calf will be?

 

[certherfbeef]

Nice calves Cert!

I like the last two the best. Do you think they would want to come down to warm and balmy Louisiana to eat some nice ryegrass for the winter? Supposed to be 70 tomorrow.

Thanks cypress. The red calf with the blaze will only leave here for an extremely insane dollar amount as she is my favorite. And if the black one leaves it will not be just for the winter and you have to come get her.
Besides, they like the ohio winters as much as I do. AND they hate mosquitoes like me too. 70 at Christmas just isn't right.

 

[hillbilly]

Nice calves Cert. I wasn't specifically talking to you as I had forgotten you had some simme's. Glad you posted though. I particularly like the looks of that first calf. I'm guessing your black simme bull is heterozygous black? Homo black shouldn't throw any red correct?

James, the black simmy bull is just a mut. Out of a hereford marked chifer cow and meyer 734. I was quite shocked the year most of my calves out of him were hereford looking.
Thanks for the compliments. The top calf is bred to a black simmy bull due to calve in march. She will get a red angus for next year's calf. What color do you think that calf will be?

red

 

[cypressfarms]

Nice calves Cert!

I like the last two the best. Do you think they would want to come down to warm and balmy Louisiana to eat some nice ryegrass for the winter? Supposed to be 70 tomorrow.

Thanks cypress. The red calf with the blaze will only leave here for an extremely insane dollar amount as she is my favorite. And if the black one leaves it will not be just for the winter and you have to come get her.
Besides, they like the ohio winters as much as I do. AND they hate mosquitoes like me too. 70 at Christmas just isn't right.

Yeah Cert, 70 at Christmas isn't right. I wish it could snow about 1" Christmas eve here, and then go back to the 60's the rest of the winter. You know us southerners can't take the cold. Darn, the red calf with the blaze was the one I wanted too! Does just being insane count?

 

[El_Putzo]

She will get a red angus for next year's calf. What color do you think that calf will be?

I'm guessing redneck with just a little white on the face.

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

The Hereford breed does NOT carry the diluter gene, so if you breed to a Homozygous black Simmental bull, you will get 100% black calves, probably with white in places like a Hereford, may only be white on face.
If the black Simmental bull is Heterozygous black, you have a 50/50 chance of getting red or black. Still a good cross. Color is only a marketing tool. Doesn't make an animal any better or worse.

The Hereford breed does carry the Diluter Gene. I know this because on the Registration papers it has it on the bottom if there are any sires or dams that have the gene in the pedigree. So "yes" Herefords have the Diluter gene. Its where the calves look real chocolate brown. :cboy:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The Hereford breed does NOT carry the diluter gene, so if you breed to a Homozygous black Simmental bull, you will get 100% black calves, probably with white in places like a Hereford, may only be white on face.
If the black Simmental bull is Heterozygous black, you have a 50/50 chance of getting red or black. Still a good cross. Color is only a marketing tool. Doesn't make an animal any better or worse.

The Hereford breed does carry the Diluter Gene. I know this because on the Registration papers it has it on the bottom if there are any sires or dams that have the gene in the pedigree. So "yes" Herefords have the Diluter gene. Its where the calves look real chocolate brown. :cboy:

OK, you are saying that the American Hfd is acknowledging that there IS a diluter gene in the Hereford breed?? it's on their papers??
Well, see, that's new as far as I know. Come on out there, any OLD hereford breeders??
Back in the 70's when Simmental came here, they were the ONLY breed with a diluter gene. Whenever you saw a grey/chocolate calf, you KNEW it was 1/2 Simmental or possibly a Charolais cross. I still belive that Continentals are the only breeds that carried the diluter gene.

Its where the calves look real chocolate brown

What do you mean?? A purebred Hereford "looks chocolate brown"??? If anything, if a Hfd was diluted, they should be the light red strain. If they are "chocolate" that means there is a BLACK gene plus a diluter gene.
So --- I'm really confused.

 

[certherfbeef]

Jeanne,

There is only a few lines with the diluter gene from what I understand. I also know that a good honest hereford breeder should not sell those animals as registered stock.
Unfortunatly, there are some breeders that are not on the up and up.

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

The Diluter gene makes the Hereford calves look like a Choclate color with white instead of Red and white. There was a Hereford bull in the breed back some time ago called Trident 7777. He had the gene. There was a Felton cow that I know of that was sired by this 7777 bull. The Old Hereford line still traces back to some of the diluter gene. I guess calves can still be affected of the diesase. Take care and Merry Christmas and New Years to Everybody! :cboy:

 

[txag]

a red animal (hereford) with the diluter gene is NOT chocolate brown. often in red animals, they'll be a lighter red or "yellow" but carriers of the diluter with red coat coloring are often much harder to recognize than black animals (which will be grey) who have the diluter gene. also important is that just because a herf is a lighter color red/yellow does not mean they carry the diluter gene!

there are only a few proven diluters in the herf breed. according to a geneticist the AHA is working with, it can't be proven that the diluter gene was brought in from another breed (Simmental, Gelbvieh, Charolais (in the case of Monarch, it's the same as the Simmental diluter gene)).

and...Hill Creek, i think you're talking about Titan, not Trident. i think his genetics were "suspect", but i'm not sure it was ever proven he was a carrier. it's not on his record.