Herf ? Horned on Polled

Help Support CattleToday:

Alan

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2004
Messages
9,514
Reaction score
4
Location
NW Oregon
I'm planning on using a horned bull on a couple of cows this year, I run a polled herd with very little horned in the background. My thoughts are to combine some M326 genetics with Harland 408's genetics. I realize the greatest majority of the calves will be polled, and I could end up with horns further down the road.

I'm looking for other input so I don't simply over look anything, both positive and negitive in the cross.... I'm sure (I know) it's done all the time but is there any obvious benefits or negitives to this cross? For example; It's been said you get a bit of a F1 cross vigor in the calves from the cross. I'm just trying to get all the knowledge I can before I bring in the horns. :D

Thanks,
Alan
 

dun

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
47,334
Reaction score
2
Location
MO Ozarks
Concerning heterosis, a few years ago I spoke with geneticists from the AHA, RAA and AAA. They all said pretty much the same thing, whatever heterosis you might get from crossing with in the breed will be hardly noticeable if at all. There are too many gene similarities within a given breed to have much variation. If you had tightly linebred lines and crossed them it would be a little more noticeable.
 

KNERSIE

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,058
Reaction score
1
Location
3rd World
Bear in mind that M326 is heterozygous polled so theoretically 50% of his offspring is also heterozygous polled so the % horned calves might be more than you expect at first thought.

I have no problem with using horned genetics IF that horned genetics offer something you can't find anywhere else or to the same extent in the poll version. Just curious what do you expect Harland to bring to the table that you can't find in polled?
 
OP
Alan

Alan

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2004
Messages
9,514
Reaction score
4
Location
NW Oregon
KNERSIE":17jscs83 said:
Bear in mind that M326 is heterozygous polled so theoretically 50% of his offspring is also heterozygous polled so the % horned calves might be more than you expect at first thought.

Thanks Harley, just what I'm looking for, I had forgotten that M326 is heterozygous polled.... Like you once said, we're not breeding rabbits. I don't want to miss the obvious, I'm hoping to breed 20 or so more generations of cattle before I'm done.

I have no problem with using horned genetics IF that horned genetics offer something you can't find anywhere else or to the same extent in the poll version. Just curious what do you expect Harland to bring to the table that you can't find in polled?

The main reasons for using Harland is that he brings in high marbling traits as does M326 (M326 +0.46 and Harland +0.48) He helps out on my problem with higher BW's in some of my cows. He gives me similar growth traits as M326 (WW,YW). So Harland adds to my long term plan in these three areas with completly different genetics. Also a big reason is that his semen is avalible locally, and I was hoping for some added vigor in the calves.... which Dun has corrected.

As you know I have M326 and Rib Eye in my tank as well as 242 and Progress. While I also have World Class, he will not add to the carcuss EPD's I'm after. Yes I know I'm chasing EPD's, but my thoughts are that I will continue to improve the genotype in my herd using these types of bulls. Some of the things I'm watching are frame size (which M326 helps Harland in that respect). I'll try to find out about daughters udders before hand and hope for easy keepers. If you have a clear idea of my ramblings :roll: let me know if you have any bull recommendations.

One year soon my tank and I are going to go Reno or/and Denver to load up on some of these top, not so local bulls.

Thanks Harley,
Alan
?
 

Herefords.US

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
2,066
Reaction score
4
Location
North Central Texas
KNERSIE":3758mjmi said:
Bear in mind that M326 is heterozygous polled so theoretically 50% of his offspring is also heterozygous polled so the % horned calves might be more than you expect at first thought.

I have no problem with using horned genetics IF that horned genetics offer something you can't find anywhere else or to the same extent in the poll version. Just curious what do you expect Harland to bring to the table that you can't find in polled?

Harley, I'd like to revise your question a bit and invite you (and anyone else that wants to) to answer:

What Polled Hereford bull do you believe brings as much or more to the table, overall, as Harland does? :)

George
 

redfornow

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
1,380
Reaction score
0
Herefords.US":204o6vrz said:
KNERSIE":204o6vrz said:
Bear in mind that M326 is heterozygous polled so theoretically 50% of his offspring is also heterozygous polled so the % horned calves might be more than you expect at first thought.

I have no problem with using horned genetics IF that horned genetics offer something you can't find anywhere else or to the same extent in the poll version. Just curious what do you expect Harland to bring to the table that you can't find in polled?

Harley, I'd like to revise your question a bit and invite you (and anyone else that wants to) to answer:

What Polled Hereford bull do you believe brings as much or more to the table, overall, as Harland does? :)

George

We agree, I am a harland fan....
Bred every fall calving hereford on the place to him. I will know this next sept or so how smart that was...

But all the calves I have seen look great.
 

KNERSIE

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,058
Reaction score
1
Location
3rd World
Herefords.US":6qa8nsgu said:
KNERSIE":6qa8nsgu said:
Bear in mind that M326 is heterozygous polled so theoretically 50% of his offspring is also heterozygous polled so the % horned calves might be more than you expect at first thought.

I have no problem with using horned genetics IF that horned genetics offer something you can't find anywhere else or to the same extent in the poll version. Just curious what do you expect Harland to bring to the table that you can't find in polled?

Harley, I'd like to revise your question a bit and invite you (and anyone else that wants to) to answer:

What Polled Hereford bull do you believe brings as much or more to the table, overall, as Harland does? :)

George

I don't know enough about Harland to really comment, but I do know that in my market if you sell poll hereford bulls, the buyer expects polled calves. I know the USA is more tolerant towards horns, but although nobody specifically asks for it here, they all want homozygous polled bulls or they would go and buy a horned bull instead.

The horns or even dehorning the few horned calves I might get out of heterozygous bulls doesn't bother me much, but I am afraid my customers isn't as tolerant on horns if they bought a polled bull.
 
Top