Herf Bull Pic: Updated

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El_Putzo

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I did finally have an extra 10 minutes to snap a few more. Let me know if you like these any better. As I mentioned before, the break behind the shoulders and the lack of eye pigment are the two biggest faults I can see. Pardon the flies in the last pic, I haven't gotten them sprayed since our last rain last week.

11ULeftSide.jpg


11URear.jpg


11UFace.jpg
 

Brandonm22

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The lack of masculinity is the biggest knock on him. The pigment thing isn't that big a deal to me. He stands squarely on four legs, has adequate muscle, is deep ribbed, has decent length, and desirable muscle shape. You already own him. I would go ahead and use him. He is better than most of the bulls people post on here.
 

3waycross

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Have you considered having a BSE performed on him. Based on his lack of masculine attributes, I would be more than a little concerned about his potency.

With the lack of neck crest, cowy head and (sorry Brandom) below average muscle I would be inclined to believe he is lacking in testosterone production.

Edited to add. He really seems to be lacking in the testicle dept. I would guess them to be under 32 cm and for what appears to be a 2 yr old bull that is not much.
 

Ryan

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He won't even be a year for a few more months:

Birthdate: 09/24/2008

How masculine do you want them at 9 1/2 - 10 months?
 

blackcowz

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Ryan":3e8l18zb said:
He won't even be a year for a few more months:

Birthdate: 09/24/2008

How masculine do you want them at 9 1/2 - 10 months?

Sorry Ryan, but even our little dinks of bulls looked like bulls at WEANING. This bull appears to at least have some grow and being ten months old, he ought to look like he has some testicles. With some growth that appears to be one of his few advantages, he would have made a decent steer.
 

Ryan

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blackcowz":28onmk80 said:
Ryan":28onmk80 said:
He won't even be a year for a few more months:

Birthdate: 09/24/2008

How masculine do you want them at 9 1/2 - 10 months?

Sorry Ryan, but even our little dinks of bulls looked like bulls at WEANING. This bull appears to at least have some grow and being ten months old, he ought to look like he has some testicles. With some growth that appears to be one of his few advantages, he would have made a decent steer.

I understand that, trust me. I, too, believe that a bull should look like a bull. However, the main purpose of my post was to point out age. That he is not a 2 year old bull. I would like to see more masculinity throughout the head, but at the same time, he probably hasn't reached puberty yet, so his testosterone production, which leads to secondary sex characteristics (masculinity, testicle developement, crest, etc..), probably isn't nearly as close to where it will be in the next couple few months.

Ryan
 

Herefords.US

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Ideally, I'd sure like to see more masculinity at this age, but I've seen bulls his age that didn't develop until later, especially if they were coming out of a rough, sparse winter. Pigment and a better head would have been nice. While not large, I'd say his testicles are within acceptable size range. A BSE exam should affirm or alleviate any concerns.

He shows good thickness from behind, but I'd sure like to see more volume through the middle. Right now, he has a "hard-keeping" look to him from the side that worries me, knowing that he has been getting some grain. I'd still like to see another update in 3-4 months. As I said before, he appears to be a "late bloomer". How acceptable that is, I leave to everyone's individual opinion. As Brandon said, I've sure seen worse posted here.

George
 

alacattleman

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Herefords.US":ypdd8b8x said:
Ideally, I'd sure like to see more masculinity at this age, but I've seen bulls his age that didn't develop until later, especially if they were coming out of a rough, sparse winter. Pigment and a better head would have been nice. While not large, I'd say his testicles are within acceptable size range. A BSE exam should affirm or alleviate any concerns.

He shows good thickness from behind, but I'd sure like to see more volume through the middle. Right now, he has a "hard-keeping" look to him from the side that worries me, knowing that he has been getting some grain. I'd still like to see another update in 3-4 months. As I said before, he appears to be a "late bloomer". How acceptable that is, I leave to everyone's individual opinion. As Brandon said, I've sure seen worse posted here.

George
late bloomers would kill alot of operations,
 

cypressfarms

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One good thing, he is loonggg. If you only looked at the last picture of just the head - you couldn't tell if it was a bull or a cow. I have seen bulls "turn around" as they get older though. Who's to say what's better.
 
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El_Putzo

El_Putzo

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3waycross":2kfqn8b7 said:
Have you considered having a BSE performed on him. Based on his lack of masculine attributes, I would be more than a little concerned about his potency.

With the lack of neck crest, cowy head and (sorry Brandom) below average muscle I would be inclined to believe he is lacking in testosterone production.

Edited to add. He really seems to be lacking in the testicle dept. I would guess them to be under 32 cm and for what appears to be a 2 yr old bull that is not much.


Maybe this is where the confusion lies.....He is only 9 months old.
 

3waycross

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El_Putzo":3f1kuvof said:
3waycross":3f1kuvof said:
Have you considered having a BSE performed on him. Based on his lack of masculine attributes, I would be more than a little concerned about his potency.

With the lack of neck crest, cowy head and (sorry Brandom) below average muscle I would be inclined to believe he is lacking in testosterone production.

Edited to add. He really seems to be lacking in the testicle dept. I would guess them to be under 32 cm and for what appears to be a 2 yr old bull that is not much.


Maybe this is where the confusion lies.....He is only 9 months old.

That info was only posted after I said my piece. It makes a little difference, but he still lacks masculinity. I would still do the BSE and hope he grows a pair so to speak real soon. Good luck.
 

Brandonm22

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3waycross":2dpmt5e6 said:
With the lack of neck crest, cowy head and (sorry Brandom) below average muscle I would be inclined to believe he is lacking in testosterone production.


I am not a betting man, but if I were I bet if they ultrasound scanned him today he has more ribeye area than the "average" 9 month old Hereford bull has (if we even have sufficient data on 9 month old bulls to have an average). Yes, I would like a little more masculine head (though his sire never had that poster boy Hereford head either) and a little more neck crest (though admittedly I find that that is not an uncommon fault in "modern" Polled Herefords....I don't remember it in the Victor cattle of my youth though); but the bull is still a big calf. Give him time. Only a lunatic or somebody with a whole lot more bulls than he could ever sell would cut that bull calf at this point. A BSE is a good idea on ANY bull; but I would prefer to wait until he was a yearling.
 

dun

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Brandonm22":2zo3gv9j said:
3waycross":2zo3gv9j said:
With the lack of neck crest, cowy head and (sorry Brandom) below average muscle I would be inclined to believe he is lacking in testosterone production.


I am not a betting man, but if I were I bet if they ultrasound scanned him today he has more ribeye area than the "average" 9 month old Hereford bull has (if we even have sufficient data on 9 month old bulls to have an average). Yes, I would like a little more masculine head (though his sire never had that poster boy Hereford head either) and a little more neck crest (though admittedly I find that that is not an uncommon fault in "modern" Polled Herefords....I don't remember it in the Victor cattle of my youth though); but the bull is still a big calf. Give him time. Only a lunatic or somebody with a whole lot more bulls than he could ever sell would cut that bull calf at this point. A BSE is a good idea on ANY bull; but I would prefer to wait until he was a yearling.

I must be a lunatic because I would cut him, and I don;t have a lot of bulls.
 

Keren

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dun":1yzy5e4g said:
Brandonm22":1yzy5e4g said:
3waycross":1yzy5e4g said:
With the lack of neck crest, cowy head and (sorry Brandom) below average muscle I would be inclined to believe he is lacking in testosterone production.


I am not a betting man, but if I were I bet if they ultrasound scanned him today he has more ribeye area than the "average" 9 month old Hereford bull has (if we even have sufficient data on 9 month old bulls to have an average). Yes, I would like a little more masculine head (though his sire never had that poster boy Hereford head either) and a little more neck crest (though admittedly I find that that is not an uncommon fault in "modern" Polled Herefords....I don't remember it in the Victor cattle of my youth though); but the bull is still a big calf. Give him time. Only a lunatic or somebody with a whole lot more bulls than he could ever sell would cut that bull calf at this point. A BSE is a good idea on ANY bull; but I would prefer to wait until he was a yearling.

I must be a lunatic because I would cut him, and I don;t have a lot of bulls.

Dun you beat me to it. I was gonna say I must be a lunatic.

Brandon ... the calf does look to have a good EMA but as far as I am concerned, he needs a whole lot more other characteristics in order to keep his nuts around here. FWIW if he was mine, he'd be halter broken and headed to a show ... as a steer. He's a nice calf but not bull material.
 
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Keren":9y5llt4p said:
FWIW if he was mine, he'd be halter broken and headed to a show ... as a steer. He's a nice calf but not bull material.

My thoughts exactly Keren
 

dun

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Killala":1c01u0ab said:
Keren":1c01u0ab said:
FWIW if he was mine, he'd be halter broken and headed to a show ... as a steer. He's a nice calf but not bull material.

My thoughts exactly Keren
We've got a january bull calf that came with a cow I bought. He's really well bred, has all the right nunber and the right names in his pedigree. Next month at fall workup he will become a steer. Just doen;t have the look to him that I would want in a bull.
 

Brandonm22

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Keren":3b44x25e said:
Dun you beat me to it. I was gonna say I must be a lunatic.

Brandon ... the calf does look to have a good EMA but as far as I am concerned, he needs a whole lot more other characteristics in order to keep his nuts around here. FWIW if he was mine, he'd be halter broken and headed to a show ... as a steer. He's a nice calf but not bull material.

Are you making that determination on REAL economically verifiable reasons or just because you have a predetermined bias towards a certain look? I got nothing wrong with selection for phenotype if there is logic behind the phenotype selected; but dissing an animal just because of pre set arbitrary biases on non economically important characteristics really does not make any sense at all in this BUSINESS. To me this bull has enough good things going for him that you have to wait to evaluate this bull at a year of age (and I am not in love with him by a long shot).
 

dun

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Brandonm22":2ocfv6e4 said:
Keren":2ocfv6e4 said:
Dun you beat me to it. I was gonna say I must be a lunatic.

Brandon ... the calf does look to have a good EMA but as far as I am concerned, he needs a whole lot more other characteristics in order to keep his nuts around here. FWIW if he was mine, he'd be halter broken and headed to a show ... as a steer. He's a nice calf but not bull material.

Are you making that determination on REAL economically verifiable reasons or just because you have a predetermined bias towards a certain look? I got nothing wrong with selection for phenotype if there is logic behind the phenotype selected; but dissing an animal just because of pre set arbitrary biases on non economically important characteristics really does not make any sense at all in this BUSINESS. To me this bull has enough good things going for him that you have to wait to evaluate this bull at a year of age (and I am not in love with him by a long shot).

It;s based simply on the fact that there are a lot better looking bulls around at that age. Any bull, or heifer for that matter, that you have to make excuses for or look for the good points just isn;t breeding material in my book.
 
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