Herefords...

[LFF]

I believe that you will not be happy with P606. I have one calf from him and the birth weight was 94 pounds. It is a bull calf from a 30 month old heifer. He is a dandy calf but he is big boned. I have heard other say that 606 caused calving problems for them.

Now as for my favorite it is unproven Huth Prospector N065 , registration number 42409394. He is a son of 3008 , and a grandson of the 517 bulls previously mentioned by someone else. His mother is a dam of distinction in Jerry Huths herd.
I have use two straws on two of my registerd herefords and realy like what I see. I got two heifers and their birth weight was 80 and 76 pounds. I feed then exactly the same as I did the mother of my P606 calf , so the feed equation should be balanced.

I have 8 more straws and plan to use them this spring. I have not used him on any heifers yet , but I'm going to try him on one this time. Here are the registration numbers on the cows that I have N065 calves from ; 42256753 and 42386980.

Give Jerry Huth a call if you are interest in semen.

 

[lakading]

What is your favorite Hereford bull?

The type that does the job, easy calving, good attitude, old line bull - does not need grain and cubes to make it on the pasture.

NOT a leggy, new fangled, trophy winning, fat, grain fed, epd rich, polled thing that only looks good after a winter in a pen with too much feed.

Bez!

Although I like the type that you described, I didn't ask for type. Have any specific animals in mind?

 

[andybob]

Caustic,why not use a third breed to maximise heterosis?

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

My favorite Hereford Bull would be, Remitall Boomer 46B. I am a big fan of a few bloodlines including: Mohican, Remitall, and victor lines. I am crossing the Victor lines on Remitall lines. Makes for sdome really good and really impressive thick calves. We have kind of gotten away from the Felton line. The only Felton bull we are using is sired by Feltons 517 and that bull is DR World Class 517 10H. Our newest herd bull is isred by KCF Bennett 3008 M326 and M326 traces to 3008 and 517. So, that is about it on the Felton line. Not bib enough bone, but some of the Felton cows were very impressive. :cboy:

 

[CattleGuy]

Not to derail the train here, but I have a question for Cattleguy. I have a brother that lives about 25 miles due west of Cedar Rapids. We come up pheasant hunting every year and we are always trying to figure out exactly what to call the grasses we walk through and what kind of nutritional value they have.

the first is primarily in CRP fields, it only gets about 12 to 18 inches tall and is usually dry by Nov 1.

The other is a canary grass looking plant, it grows more in wetland type areas such as one of the wellfields we hunt. It seems to stay green until well into the winter.

First, let me say that my comments were related more to the fast-growing nature of grass in a high rainfall environment than to any particular species.

Second, to answer your question, if the crp is old there was a lot of brome and orchard grass seeded, although both of those would probably get taller than 12 - 18 inches unless the land is highly eroded/low fertility. If the crp was established in the last few years it might more likely be a native grass like a bluestem. There may be varieties of bluestem that would fall in the height you've described, I don't know. The other you mentioned is probably Reed Canary Grass. Lots of it is used in grass waterways around here.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Caustic,why not use a third breed to maximise heterosis?

Main reason its the only 2 breeds I like anymore

 

[Bez!]

What is your favorite Hereford bull?

The type that does the job, easy calving, good attitude, old line bull - does not need grain and cubes to make it on the pasture.

NOT a leggy, new fangled, trophy winning, fat, grain fed, epd rich, polled thing that only looks good after a winter in a pen with too much feed.

Bez!

Although I like the type that you described, I didn't ask for type. Have any specific animals in mind?

Yeah, I was being a wise guy. I suppose I answered like I did because I honestly believe there really is no such thing as a favourite bull. The reason I think this way is there are too many reasons to put more than one type of bull into any herd of cattle.

On top of that, the so called favourites often come out of the best promoters - when in fact I believe there are many really good bulls out there that will never be known - simply because the owner is a small operator or not in the breeders promotion game - or only because the owner does not have the bucks to promote him to the world.

So to give you an straight up answer - in my opinion:

There should be NO such thing. Each bull has strengths and weaknesses. Therefore each year the operator that breeds his cattle will want to - or should want to look at changing the bull for additional herd improvements.

So I suppose I cannot answer your question and I am just taking up board space. :lol:

There ya' go,

Bez!

 

[redfornow]

I've also heard that there has been a lot of dissappointment in the 606 bull. He has great numbers though!

What have you heard? He puts a great udder on a cow, I have a couple of mommas out of him that are about the best in the field. You can really pick em out from the rest.

The down side that I have seen, is large blocky calfs. That are hard on the cow and tough to get on the ground even in a mature cow. If you use p606 on a heifer god help you.
Anyways I have three more this year out of him, time will tell the jury is still out on him, it just helps to know what problems others have had so I can look out. Always learning


MD

 

[Kent]

People went nuts over 606 because everyone thought we had found a low birthweight Boomer son. His BW EPD was about 1.0 when everyone started using him. Now it's 6.1 or so, about like every other Boomer son. He's still a fine bull, just not the curve bender we had hoped for.

 

[lakading]

Bez, I know what you're sayin and it all makes perfect sense.

I was wondering if there was ONE bull that you would reccomend to someone (wanting to cross their Angus with Hereford) to START with. If not, that's fine too. Maybe "favorite" wasn't the right word to use. ;-)

P.S. - I don't mind your wiseassedness. As you could tell, my reply to you carried a hint of it too. I would expect no less from you. ;-) Keeps it interesting.

 

[rwtherefords]

I've also heard that there has been a lot of dissappointment in the 606 bull. He has great numbers though!

What have you heard? He puts a great udder on a cow, I have a couple of mommas out of him that are about the best in the field. You can really pick em out from the rest.

The down side that I have seen, is large blocky calfs. That are hard on the cow and tough to get on the ground even in a mature cow. If you use p606 on a heifer god help you.
Anyways I have three more this year out of him, time will tell the jury is still out on him, it just helps to know what problems others have had so I can look out. Always learning


MD

Kent pretty much summed up what I've heard. The "numbers" originally show him to be a calving ease bull with great growth and a good pedigree, but the calving ease just isn't there, or so I've heard. Please realize that my comment was just passing on "hear say" information. I have no direct experience with P606. My reason for the comment is that people seem to flock to highly promoted bulls with good numbers, but high promotion is only high promotion. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are good bulls for your specific purpose. Besides, the numbers are just an indicator, not a guarantee. I've seen enough LLL Farley 24F offspring that I know exactly what I can expect from that bull. If you want to grow females, I think he's a very good choice.

 

[lakading]

I've also heard that there has been a lot of dissappointment in the 606 bull. He has great numbers though!

What have you heard? He puts a great udder on a cow, I have a couple of mommas out of him that are about the best in the field. You can really pick em out from the rest.

The down side that I have seen, is large blocky calfs. That are hard on the cow and tough to get on the ground even in a mature cow. If you use p606 on a heifer god help you.
Anyways I have three more this year out of him, time will tell the jury is still out on him, it just helps to know what problems others have had so I can look out. Always learning


MD

Kent pretty much summed up what I've heard. The "numbers" originally show him to be a calving ease bull with great growth and a good pedigree, but the calving ease just isn't there, or so I've heard. Please realize that my comment was just passing on "hear say" information. I have no direct experience with P606. My reason for the comment is that people seem to flock to highly promoted bulls with good numbers, but high promotion is only high promotion. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are good bulls for your specific purpose. Besides, the numbers are just an indicator, not a guarantee. I've seen enough LLL Farley 24F offspring that I know exactly what I can expect from that bull. If you want to grow females, I think he's a very good choice.

Screw his high promotion and his numbers...he's an impressive LOOKING bull. I don't mind a higher BW bull for my mature cows. The fact that he leaves good females is even better.

Thanks for the heads up on the BW though. Probably wouldn't be real fun to have a group of heifers bred to him.

 

[redfornow]

Do you look for MW LLL FARLEY 24F numbers to go up?
Both p606 and 24f both have the same sire and it was about this time that p606 numbers took a big jump.

I like both bulls alot, both are cow makers. And at the end of the day, we need cows. I would just like a little lower BW and a calf that came alittle easier.

MD

 

[Bez!]

Bez, I know what you're sayin and it all makes perfect sense.

I was wondering if there was ONE bull that you would reccomend to someone (wanting to cross their Angus with Hereford) to START with. If not, that's fine too. Maybe "favorite" wasn't the right word to use. ;-)

P.S. - I don't mind your wiseassedness. As you could tell, my reply to you carried a hint of it too. I would expect no less from you. ;-) Keeps it interesting.

Lak

I am just a big, dumb, fat guy with too much grey hair - and it is starting to disappear - :lol: - so I would have to answer you this way.

For me to give you an answer on the best or what I might consider a decent bull to put on your cows - without seeing them - would in my opinion be irresponsible.

You might have the best cows in the world, or the worst - or most likely - like all of us - be situated somewhere in the middle.

When someone tells you how much they like an animal - well, it may have worked for them, or a neighbour. But ... it still might not work for you. In fact it could work real well or it could be a train wreck.

Couple of short stories for you:

1. frenchie told a story once about his neighbour - always had a problem culling his cows. One year frenchie did it for him - using records, past performance and that years calves on the ground. Best thing that neighbour did - let a good cattle guy wander the herd and make some decisions. Apparently the herd is doing better than ever.

Note: The cull was completed with no sentimental thought process - just overall performance.

2. I was almost forced into a complete liquidation. I HAD to sell. So I sold a big bunch. As they went up the ramp I turned some out - just could not let them go. A real good local cattle guy was helping - he stopped me, asked me what I was doing - and he helped me decide which few to hold back based on overall performance. HE finished the sort and loading. First time anyone here has done that. This herd is doing real well - better than ever despite the much smaller size.

Note: The cull was completed with no sentimental thought process - just overall performance.

Performance means more than calves BW and WW.

Moral: If you want to put some performance into your herd and you have the local expertise - then a good bull can be obtained to help with the job - but I stand on my statement - I cannot do it from here. And pics will not provide the info really required to make the decision.

Note: A bull has to be purchased with no sentimental thought process - just performance.

But what in the heck does performance REALLY mean?

Only you can decide that.

In the end, weaning weights and calving weights and milk rates and whatever epd you want to talk about comes down to one thing. Calf on the ground - alive and well.

But in my opinion performance means a whole bunch more.

You may need to consider other aspects as well. Are you a part timer with an off farm job?

Young kids?

Older in age and not so "quick on your feet"?

How often will you be around when the calf hits the ground?

How close is the nearest animal doc?

How often does a family member have to walk the field - attitude counts in a small pasture.

Does your herd need some "slowing down" - ie: new attitude infusion?

Are your calves hard to round up because they are so wild for the first year of their lives?

Folks that own 5 cows in a 3 acre pasture may or may not be able to relate to some of these problems - but you can breed a lot of them out with the right genetics.

Do not often hear them being discussed though.

So you can see it becomes imperative to look at the whole picture. Great epd's are fine - but if I have a world champ bull that I cannot approach unless in an armored vehicle, or I have a couple of cows that I own that might not be able to handle this bull - but I am keeping them anyways - then there are other things to consider.

I am off my stump - I will just follow along. I have a dandy coming 4 year old AI bull that is on his last season here - home raised - with another AI bull coming - almost a year old now - he will get three heifers this year for his learning pleasure.

So count me as one of those who will not likely ever tell you to breed to Breed XXXX reg #66758 or Breed YYYY reg #356729.

Anyone who does .... well, we would not likely agree. Need the whole enchalada before the decision can be made.

Have a good one,

Bez!

 

[Caustic Burno]

Bez every rookie ,hobby farmer, and Cattleman should print that post and put it where they can read it every day.

 

[Bez!]

Bez every rookie ,hobby farmer, and Cattleman should print that post and put it where they can read it every day.

Just another post that will travel into obscurity. Few will listen and that is fine - spoke my piece - may have helped someone somewhere.

:lol:

Bez!

 

[lakading]

Bez every rookie ,hobby farmer, and Cattleman should print that post and put it where they can read it every day.

Just another post that will travel into obscurity. Few will listen and that is fine - spoke my piece - may have helped someone somewhere.

:lol:

Bez!

Bez!, maybe you should get back on your stump. That was some darn good info. Nothing I haven't heard before, but it is amazing how easily you can get off track.

You can never hear good, sound advice too many times.

Thanks.

 

[aplusmnt]

Bez, I know what you're sayin and it all makes perfect sense.

I was wondering if there was ONE bull that you would reccomend to someone (wanting to cross their Angus with Hereford) to START with. If not, that's fine too. Maybe "favorite" wasn't the right word to use. ;-)

P.S. - I don't mind your wiseassedness. As you could tell, my reply to you carried a hint of it too. I would expect no less from you. ;-) Keeps it interesting.

Lak

I am just a big, dumb, fat guy with too much grey hair - and it is starting to disappear - :lol: - so I would have to answer you this way.

For me to give you an answer on the best or what I might consider a decent bull to put on your cows - without seeing them - would in my opinion be irresponsible.

You might have the best cows in the world, or the worst - or most likely - like all of us - be situated somewhere in the middle.

When someone tells you how much they like an animal - well, it may have worked for them, or a neighbour. But ... it still might not work for you. In fact it could work real well or it could be a train wreck.

Couple of short stories for you:

1. frenchie told a story once about his neighbour - always had a problem culling his cows. One year frenchie did it for him - using records, past performance and that years calves on the ground. Best thing that neighbour did - let a good cattle guy wander the herd and make some decisions. Apparently the herd is doing better than ever.

Note: The cull was completed with no sentimental thought process - just overall performance.

2. I was almost forced into a complete liquidation. I HAD to sell. So I sold a big bunch. As they went up the ramp I turned some out - just could not let them go. A real good local cattle guy was helping - he stopped me, asked me what I was doing - and he helped me decide which few to hold back based on overall performance. HE finished the sort and loading. First time anyone here has done that. This herd is doing real well - better than ever despite the much smaller size.

Note: The cull was completed with no sentimental thought process - just overall performance.

Performance means more than calves BW and WW.

Moral: If you want to put some performance into your herd and you have the local expertise - then a good bull can be obtained to help with the job - but I stand on my statement - I cannot do it from here. And pics will not provide the info really required to make the decision.

Note: A bull has to be purchased with no sentimental thought process - just performance.

But what in the heck does performance REALLY mean?

Only you can decide that.

In the end, weaning weights and calving weights and milk rates and whatever epd you want to talk about comes down to one thing. Calf on the ground - alive and well.

But in my opinion performance means a whole bunch more.

You may need to consider other aspects as well. Are you a part timer with an off farm job?

Young kids?

Older in age and not so "quick on your feet"?

How often will you be around when the calf hits the ground?

How close is the nearest animal doc?

How often does a family member have to walk the field - attitude counts in a small pasture.

Does your herd need some "slowing down" - ie: new attitude infusion?

Are your calves hard to round up because they are so wild for the first year of their lives?

Folks that own 5 cows in a 3 acre pasture may or may not be able to relate to some of these problems - but you can breed a lot of them out with the right genetics.

Do not often hear them being discussed though.

So you can see it becomes imperative to look at the whole picture. Great epd's are fine - but if I have a world champ bull that I cannot approach unless in an armored vehicle, or I have a couple of cows that I own that might not be able to handle this bull - but I am keeping them anyways - then there are other things to consider.

I am off my stump - I will just follow along. I have a dandy coming 4 year old AI bull that is on his last season here - home raised - with another AI bull coming - almost a year old now - he will get three heifers this year for his learning pleasure.

So count me as one of those who will not likely ever tell you to breed to Breed XXXX reg #66758 or Breed YYYY reg #356729.

Anyone who does .... well, we would not likely agree. Need the whole enchalada before the decision can be made.

Have a good one,

Bez!

Great Post! Your long post are one of the few ones that I read every word! Love to hear you ramble on, keep it up.

 

[rwtherefords]

Do you look for MW LLL FARLEY 24F numbers to go up?
Both p606 and 24f both have the same sire and it was about this time that p606 numbers took a big jump.

I like both bulls alot, both are cow makers. And at the end of the day, we need cows. I would just like a little lower BW and a calf that came alittle easier.

MD

If you're asking about Farley's birthweight EPD going up, no I don't expect that at all. Like I said, I've seen enought of his calves from cows I'm familier with to know what to expect. Birth weights of his calves from cattle that are managed around here (the same way I manage my cattle) are normally upper 70's to upper 80's. He's a good maternal bull with balanced EPD's.

Now I'm sure sombody is going to jump my case for talking about this bull. Remember, I'm responding to questions. I'm not saying that he's the greatest bull out there or anthing else. I said, I liked him, but there are other bulls I like as well. He's just one of the more proven bulls (to me) in my area.

Edit: By the way, I've been in the pen with this bull and seen his temperment as well as the temperment of many of his offspring. That was a point I was trying to make when discussing AI'ing a while back. I think knowing the temperment of a bull is very important, regardless of his numbers.

 

[andybob]

Well put Bez! a really good post.