Herefords -- Horned versus Polled?
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That is a question that is hard to answer. The polled cattle have improved greatly over the last several years. You find more width and muscling in some than in the past. But in this area it is hard to find a good polled bull that a commercial breeder can afford although it seems that prices on many of the better bulls is dropping now because they aren't moving like they have in the past. There is a very wide range in quality from top to bottom. Line bred cattle like Danny Millers is some of the top Polled cattle IMO. I have never got to see them in person but hope too soon. Most of the good polled cattle I see have a strong horned influence. Danny's cattle would be an exception. At the recent sale where we purchased a horned bull the best polled bulls that brought the top dollars were all out of either horned cows or horned bulls and some were as much as 75% horned blood. The one area I look very hard at both polled and horned cattle is their feet, legs and structural soundness. I find a lot of bulls I like but they fall short in those areas. Again I'm basing my opinion on what I see here in this area. I know cattle vary a lot from one area to another. I still feel it is easier to find a good horned bull than an equal quality polled bull but again that is my opinion and I respect the opinions of those who feel the other way.
Been through this many times and we all know how elkwc feels. farmguy
Excerpt from an article in BEEF MAGAZINE, dated April 1, 2000.
HORNED vs POLLED
by Joseph Stookey
Some producers tell me they prefer certain horned breeds because they are superior to their polled counterparts.
In 1996, Dr. Laki Goonewardene from Alberta and I collaborated on a project to compare the performance records of horned and polled Charolais and Hereford bulls. The bulls were kept at two test stations, one in Alberta and one in Saskatchewan from 1985-1993. We had access to the performance records of 578 Charolais bulls (329 horned and 249 polled) and 1,860 Hereford bulls (1,182 horned and 678 polled).
As shown in Table 1, we found very little difference between the horned and polled bulls in the traits that were measured. The polled Charolais bulls did carry significantly more backfat than their horned counterparts, but they were not different in average daily gain, adjusted yearling weight or in scrotal circumference.
The polled Hereford bulls in Saskatchewan had a significantly higher average daily gain compared to the horned bulls and tended to be larger yearlings. Polled Hereford bulls in Alberta also tended to have a greater average daily gain, but the difference was not considered significant.
Our findings were similar to other studies. Research by Lange in 1989 found no difference between polled and horned German Simmental cattle in growth, carcass yield, carcass composition, health and reproductive performance.
Work reported by Frisch and coworkers from Australia in 1980 - comparing various beef breeds - showed no difference between horned and polled crossbred lines in live weight, fertility and mortality rates.
Another encouraging finding was that the ratio of polled bulls at each Canadian test station over the time period had gradually increased as the number of horned bulls decreased. In other words, good polled bulls are becoming more readily available.
Historically, polled beef bulls may have been inferior, but there is no evidence that overall differences still exist today. Dehorning beef cattle via genetics is a welfare friendly practice that everyone in the industry should embrace and support.
Joseph Stookey is an associate professor at the Western College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Saskatchewan. Contact him at [email protected].
Read more: http://herefordtalk.com/thread/1538/hor ... z5EOvAlK3S
Excerpt from an article in BEEF MAGAZINE, dated April 1, 2000.
HORNED vs POLLED
by Joseph Stookey
Some producers tell me they prefer certain horned breeds because they are superior to their polled counterparts.
In 1996, Dr. Laki Goonewardene from Alberta and I collaborated on a project to compare the performance records of horned and polled Charolais and Hereford bulls. The bulls were kept at two test stations, one in Alberta and one in Saskatchewan from 1985-1993. We had access to the performance records of 578 Charolais bulls (329 horned and 249 polled) and 1,860 Hereford bulls (1,182 horned and 678 polled).
As shown in Table 1, we found very little difference between the horned and polled bulls in the traits that were measured. The polled Charolais bulls did carry significantly more backfat than their horned counterparts, but they were not different in average daily gain, adjusted yearling weight or in scrotal circumference.
The polled Hereford bulls in Saskatchewan had a significantly higher average daily gain compared to the horned bulls and tended to be larger yearlings. Polled Hereford bulls in Alberta also tended to have a greater average daily gain, but the difference was not considered significant.
Our findings were similar to other studies. Research by Lange in 1989 found no difference between polled and horned German Simmental cattle in growth, carcass yield, carcass composition, health and reproductive performance.
Work reported by Frisch and coworkers from Australia in 1980 - comparing various beef breeds - showed no difference between horned and polled crossbred lines in live weight, fertility and mortality rates.
Another encouraging finding was that the ratio of polled bulls at each Canadian test station over the time period had gradually increased as the number of horned bulls decreased. In other words, good polled bulls are becoming more readily available.
Historically, polled beef bulls may have been inferior, but there is no evidence that overall differences still exist today. Dehorning beef cattle via genetics is a welfare friendly practice that everyone in the industry should embrace and support.
Joseph Stookey is an associate professor at the Western College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Saskatchewan. Contact him at [email protected].
Read more: http://herefordtalk.com/thread/1538/hor ... z5EOvAlK3S
Ky hills
Well-known member
In this area Polled seems to be preferred for that very reason being polled. I used to hear people say though that when it came to both Charolais and Herefords that the horned ones were thicker made and overall better quality because the polled ones early on were bred for being polled as the main trait. Some folks say that by now the quality of the polled animals has come up to the others.
farmguy":8ndlx2pp said:
That article was published 18 years ago. If horned and polled bulls were the same then, I would think it would be just as true now.
I asked this question because I had heard that polled Herefords were not as good. It seems that is not the case.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
I'm sure itsKy hills":2sv1ca5w said:
Like most any thing you start from ground up with. You have to use what you got to work with initially.. "Foundation wise"...
True Grit Farms
Well-known member
Common sense says polled Hereford should far superior to horned Hereford in this day and age because of shear numbers. The hobby farm that does AI and pretends to be a breeder doesn't want to be bothered with horns. And the breeders that raise Horned Hereford cattle on adverage have more working cattle experience, knowledge and better bloodlines. Hereford cattle that are bred for range type operations seem to always be horned.
In my opinion I see more consistent quality in horned cattle and I find verification for that when I visit one of the local sale barns. For instance one reputable breeders commercial steers will sell within 5 dollars a hundred of the best blacks. The polleds will be 15 dollars a hundred back. Again though you don't know if the cow qualities they are out of is the same. I see more inconsistency in polled sire groups and blame it on the fire and ice matings that many have used. Most horned breeders around here are either L1 or the Deewalls linebred cattle and they tend to sire very consistent sire groups. Again it don't matter what breed you decide to go with you need to be carreful in selection.
Ebenezer
Well-known member
We AIed with HH and PH semen on a limited basis years back. Remember limited. The HH baldies were longer and taller and sold better ($s) as weaned calves. The HH baldies were more like Angus in the level of speed and movement while the PH baldies were thicker and more muscular but would finally amble out of the pasture into the lots about time half of the other cattle had been processed. I assumed that the differences were bred in from range survival versus farm type. Both worked well. On HH/Angus crosses we had a few to dehorn but they paid their way very well.
Best advice I got when looking for potential bulls was to select for hooded or deep set eyes and try to get a tendency to have eye pigment.
Best advice I got when looking for potential bulls was to select for hooded or deep set eyes and try to get a tendency to have eye pigment.
R V
Well-known member
Bullitt":29w700fq said:
That would mostly depend on whether or not the bull was heterozygous polled or homozygous polled.
This is the topic that depending on who you talk to you will get completely different opinions on and there is never going to be a right or wrong answer to. This topic has been beaten to death here and other message boards over the years. As others have mentioned it really depends on the breeder who is selling, what the buyer values, and regional markets. There are some places in the country where there is a big gap in demand or quality for either horned or polled Herefords. In our market the polleds seem to be more in demand and there are probably more guys breeding polled than horned although some guys breed both so they have something to offer to any potential customer. A lot of the commercial guys we sell to seem to have a degree of uncertainty about what kind of breeds are mixed into their crossbred females so a Hereford bull being homozygous polled is important to some of them if horns are something they want to avoid.
Some of our females have horned animals in their pedigrees and if they are paired up with a bull that is not homozygous polled we sometimes get a horned calf as a result. The last time we had a horned bull in our sale pen he probably was the best bull of the 4 we sold that year but we wound up selling him for the lowest price of the 4 bulls because we had several guys look at him but passed on him once they found out he was de-horned as they didn't want to take the chance of getting horned calves by him. Had the same thing happen 1 year with heifers too, as soon as a guy found out a heifer he liked was de-horned he backed off. We have used some homozygous polled AI bulls over the years that the majority of our females are sired by and both our walking herd sires are homozygous polled. This year we are using 2 heterozygous polled AI sires as we are confident enough in the females we are pairing them with that a recessive horned gene won't pop up.
A horned calf is not the end of the world for us as we will put paste on them after birth so we don't have to de-horn after weaning. There is research going on with gene editing and it would be interesting if there comes a day when you can eliminate the horn gene while keeping all other desirable growth traits intact. I still think regardless of science and technology that breeders who know what works for them and their customers will continue to breed good cattle and let the animals they offer up for sale be a good representation of their program.
Some of our females have horned animals in their pedigrees and if they are paired up with a bull that is not homozygous polled we sometimes get a horned calf as a result. The last time we had a horned bull in our sale pen he probably was the best bull of the 4 we sold that year but we wound up selling him for the lowest price of the 4 bulls because we had several guys look at him but passed on him once they found out he was de-horned as they didn't want to take the chance of getting horned calves by him. Had the same thing happen 1 year with heifers too, as soon as a guy found out a heifer he liked was de-horned he backed off. We have used some homozygous polled AI bulls over the years that the majority of our females are sired by and both our walking herd sires are homozygous polled. This year we are using 2 heterozygous polled AI sires as we are confident enough in the females we are pairing them with that a recessive horned gene won't pop up.
A horned calf is not the end of the world for us as we will put paste on them after birth so we don't have to de-horn after weaning. There is research going on with gene editing and it would be interesting if there comes a day when you can eliminate the horn gene while keeping all other desirable growth traits intact. I still think regardless of science and technology that breeders who know what works for them and their customers will continue to breed good cattle and let the animals they offer up for sale be a good representation of their program.
