Hereford question

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Idaman

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3waycross - Your post really intrigues me as my early ranching was at 7500 feet near Westciffe, Colorado and we are now trying to buy a ranch in SE Colorado. There was a story back in those days about a ranch in South Park, Colorado that assembled a herd of cows that were 1/2 raised at Gunnison, Colo. and 1/2 raised in the Texas Panhandle. When the cowboys went to feed every morning the Gunnison cows were waiting at the gate and the Texas cows were high on the hills in whatever grass there was sticking out of the snow. Of course when the feeding began the Gunnison cows were ready and cleaned up the hay almost as fast as it fell off the truck and it was absolutely all gone before the Texas realized what was happening. We always joked that a Gunison cow really knew what to do with a bale of hay. Worse than a baler.

My great granddad and grandad had their hay bases at Westciffe but ranged cattle as far east as Pueblo. They and the Beckwith Ranch had a roundup every spring that ranged down toward Pueblo where they hazed the Westcliffe cattle back towards the miountains. There was a great story from one of those roundups about the chuckwagon cook who fed the "boys" a tomcat because they hadn't killed a beef. Needless to say a fresh beef was the that evening.
 

KNERSIE

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Northern Rancher":hw2h1pec said:
One word WINTER!!!! From your pics I don't think I've seen anything matches up with -50 and a wind. Your droughts are more severe than ours but we still have them. For guys running in tough country your better off running bulls raised in similar country. Cattle raised in kinder gentler conditions can be used in those same ones. Watching genetics melt down isn't my favorite spectator sport.

you know as much about extreme heat as I know about extreme cold.
 

Northern Rancher

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It gets up above 100F here too-but I don't pretend to know what might work in South Africa. Idaman I remember the adds for the yearling panorama in the Canadian Cattleman magazine-the Douglas Lake ranch still runs alot of Horned Hereford bulls-they bought some Lad sons at Fraser's sale this year.
 

Idaman

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Northern Rancher":1alccnrd said:
It gets up above 100F here too-but I don't pretend to know what might work in South Africa. Idaman I remember the adds for the yearling panorama in the Canadian Cattleman magazine-the Douglas Lake ranch still runs alot of Horned Hereford bulls-they bought some Lad sons at Fraser's sale this year.

I believe that one of the heiresses to the Walmart chain owns Douglas Lake and subsequently purchased the Alkalai Lake Ranch south of Williams Lake. That is another super ranch.

I used to deal with the manager of Douglas Lake but I am struggling to remember his name. At one time some timber people from Oregon were interested in buying the Douglas Lake and they wanted me to oversee their interests in the ranch because I had had so much experience with cross border issues.
 

Herefords.US

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Idaman, here is a web-page that you (and others) might find interesting:

http://oldfort.fortlewis.edu/inbreedi.htm

History of Inbreeding Project

In 1946, Dr. H.H. "Stony" Stonaker along with a $25,000 grant from the American Hereford Association to study comprest cattle, began the inbreeding study. In addition to the cattle already at Fort Lewis, he purchased bull and cows from herds around the region.

HISTORY OF INBRED LINES DEVELOPED AT SJBRC

The SJBRC inbreeding project was designed to examine the effects of intensive inbreeding and subsequent linecrossing on various economically important traits in Hereford cattle. It was initiated in 1946 under the direction of Dr. H.H. Stonaker. He served as project leader until Dr. James Brinks assumed those duties in 1968. Dr. Brinks served as the project leader until he retired in 1996. Dr. David Schafer now served as project leader.

Since the project's inception, 23 inbred Hereford lines (three of which are currently in existence), a non-inbred line sired by linecross bulls, and a control line utilizing outside sires have been formed. Seven of the original lines were formed using foundation females from the existing Fort Lewis herd. During the course of the project, many of the lines were discontinued due to below average performance and/or the presence of genetic defects.

The following is a brief history of the Hereford lines developed at the SJBRC since 1946 (Brinks, 1975).

ANIMAS (1). The six Polled Hereford foundation females of the Animas line, purchased from a Nebraska breeder, were the product of mating President Mischief (3030144) to his daughters. The two foundation sires, FLR President Mischief (6392011) and FLR President Mischief 80 (6834047) resulted from similar matings. The initial mating scheme involved the mating of full- and half-sibs. Four calf crops, produced at the station in 1953-55 and 1958, weaned 24 calves with an average inbreeding of 38%. The Animas line was discontinued in 1958 as it became evident that the performance of this line was below that of other lines already in the herd.

Bonanza (2). The eight purchased Polled Hereford foundation females (three of which were the product of sire X daughter matings) were all sired by Numode 2 (4323704). Numode 2, an outcross bull out of Quester's Queen 2 (3545308), was a grandson of Plata Domino 36 (3093731). Additionally, CARF Sears Loboy O10 (6691376), the first sire used in this line, was out of one of the foundation cows (Lomaid D Sal (5265805)) and Numode 2. The Bonanza line, created by mating inbred half-sibs, produced its first calf crop in 1953. A total of 61 calves, with an average inbreeding of 38% were produced over the 12 year period this line was in existence. Five different sires were used before the line was discontinued in 1964 due to the occurrence of dwarfism.

Brae Arden (3). This line was begun with the purchase of six foundation females and a bull from a Wyoming breeder. All females and the bull, Brae Arden 8 (4210909), were sired by Brae Carlos 14 (3377516). This line had been closed to outside breeding since 1926 in the Wyoming herd and was founded by Bonnie Arden (1454389). All foundation cattle at the station traced back to Bonnie Arden through Brae Carlos 14, Brae Arden 3 (2353469), Carlos Arden 23 (2353469), and/or Carlos Arden 5 (1960015). The foundation animals had inbreeding coefficients ranging from 14 to 28% with Brae Arden 8 being 28% inbred. The first calf crop (1948) was produced by mating Brae Arden 8 to his half sibs. Twenty-four sires were used from 1948 through 1982. A total of 303 inbred calves, with an average inbreeding of 45%, were produced over the 35 year period.

Colorado (4). The 16 foundation Hereford females of the Colorado line were of Fort Lewis (Prince Domino) breeding, with the majority of them sired by CSC Dominator 6 (3713447) or Forest Domino (1760831). Foundation sire CSC Dominator 6, who produced progeny from 1946 through 1950, was sired by Jr. Dominator 14 (2870303) and was out of Princess Domino C 324 (2254836) while Forest Domino was a son of Prince Domino (499611). During the 31 years (1946 through 1976) this line was in existence, 12 sires were used to produce 167 inbred calves with an average inbreeding of 40%.

Don (5). The five foundation cows purchased to begin the Don line were all sired by Rouge Domino 401 (4329587), and were great granddaughters of Real Prince Domino 26 (2467578) on both the sire and dam sides of the pedigrees. The foundation sire, Rouge Domino 401, was out of Beau Domino 20 (2995410) and Belle Donald (3632339), and was a grandson of Real Prince Domino 26. Initially, for the first 2 years, Rouge Domino 401 was mated back to his slightly inbred daughters. The first two sons of Rouge Domino 401 used in this line, CARF Sears Don 180 (6386902) and CARF Sears Don 204 (6678577), were products of sire-daughter matings as well. Over the 28 years (1950 through 1978) this line was in existence, 185 calves were produced with an average inbreeding of 43%.

Fort Lewis (6). The 24 foundation females of the Fort Lewis line were obtained from the existing Fort Lewis cow herd and were primarily daughters of Forest Domino (1760831). The foundation sire, Ft. Lewis Dominator 1 (3924759), was sired by Jr. Dominator 14 (2870303) and was out of Violet Lewis (2377749). Violet Lewis was sired by Forest Domino and was the dam of College Royal Domino 3, the foundation sire of the Royal line. The first son of Ft. Lewis Dominator 1 to be used in this line was Ft. Lewis Dominator 31, who was out Ft. Lewis Dominator 1's dam Violet Lewis. Ft. Lewis Dominator 31 was mated to inbred half-sibs to continue this line. The Fort Lewis line was terminated in 1953 to provide room for the expansion of more superior lines. Over the 7 year period the line was in existence, a total of 92 inbred calves were produced with an average inbreeding of 26%.

La Plata (7). The 10 foundation females in the La Plata line were of Fort Lewis (Prince Domino) breeding. Seven of these females were progeny of Baca R. Domino 41 (3698359), the foundation sire of the La Plata line. Baca R. Domino 41 was sired by OJR Royal 10 (2892596) and was out of Baca Domino B 53 (2525290). The second most highly used sired in the La Plata line, La Plata Domino 2 (4871016), was a son of Baca R. Domino 41 and A Mabel DL (3924769). The first calves in this line, sired by Baca R. Domino 41, were dropped in 1946. Later calf crops were produced by mating La Plata Domino 2 to his half sibs until the line was eliminated in 1955 due to below average performance. During the 8 years the La Plata line was at the station, a total of 56 inbred calves were produced with an average inbreeding of 21%.

Mesa (8). The 11 comprest foundation females used to form the Mesa line were of Fort Lewis (Prince Domino) breeding and were the progeny of six different sires. Hiwan Prince C 58 (4244577), the foundation sire, was a comprest bull sired by Wyoming Domino 34 (3115660) and was out of Colo Princess H2 (2964375). Hiwan Prince C 58 was mated to the foundation cows and later to his daughters to initiate the Mesa line. He produced progeny from 1947 through 1953 and his son, Mesa 290 (6843976), a result of a sire-daughter mating, sired calves in 1954. The Mesa line was discontinued in 1954 due to below average productivity as well as the high incidence of dwarf calves resulting from comprest X comprest matings. A total of 33 inbred progeny with an average inbreeding of 17% were produced during the 8 years this line was at the station.

Monarch (9). This line was initiated by the purchase of six daughters of Plus Blanchard 28 (3996790) from a Colorado breeder. Plus Blanchard 28, sired by Plus Domino 106 (2978593) and out of Carlos Dora (2847528), was mated to his daughters to produce progeny at the station from 1952 through 1954. The first son of Plus Blanchard 28 to be used on the station, Sears Monarch 2140 (7539286), was out of the foundation cow Miss Plus 45 (6096026). Until the line was discontinued in 1977 to make room for the more superior lines, a total of 218 inbred progeny with an average inbreeding of 28% were produced.

Prospector (10). The six foundation females of the Prospector line were of Fort Lewis (Prince Domino) breeding. The foundation sire, Bonvue Prince 17 (4585280), sired by Comprest Prince 3 (3511786) and out of Bonvue Princess 11 (3431623), was mated to the foundation cows, and then to his daughters to initiate the line. Two widely used bulls in the Prospector line, Prospector 300 (6844009) and Prospector 2010 (7411412), were both sired by Bonvue Prince 17 and were out of Blanca Lewis 4 (5204787), a daughter of Bonvue Prince 17. To date, a total of 338 inbred calves have been produced in the Prospector line with an average inbreeding of 39%.

Royal (11). The 36 foundation females of the Royal line were of Fort Lewis breeding, and trace back to Prince Domino (499611) through College Royal Domino 2 (2903710), College Royal Domino (2382420), Forest Domino (1760831), and/or Domino 27 (1330493). The foundation sire, College Royal Domino 3 (3610929), sired by College Royal Domino 2 and out of Violet Lewis (2377749), was mated to the related foundation females, which included a number of his daughters, to initiate the Royal line. College Royal Domino 3 produced progeny from 1946 through 1950, after which time his inbred sons were used as sires in this line. To date, a total of 23 different sires have been used producing 231 inbred calves with an average inbreeding of 45%.

San Juan (12). The 10 foundation females of the San Juan line were of Fort Lewis breeding. Eight of these females were daughters of WHR Flash 74 (3404715), the foundation sire of the line. WHR Flash 74 was sired by WHR Onward Flash 1 (2667660) and was out of Miss Reg 31 (2716029). The son of WHR Flash 74, Fort Lewis Flash 10 (4881042), was mated to his inbred half-sibs to continue the inbreeding in this line. During the 38 years this line remained on the station (1946 through 1983), a total of 287 inbred calves with an average inbreeding of 40% were produced, and a total of 15 sires were used.

Tarrington (14). The six foundation females of the Tarrington line, born in 1952, were all daughters of Tarrington Onward (6254198). Tarrington Onward, sired by Tarrington March On (6253423) and out of Queen Mab (6253341), was an imported bull from England. These six foundation cows, mated back to their sire, remained on the Wyoming ranch from which they were purchased until the cows calved and had been rebred to Tarrington Onward. After rebreeding, the foundation females as well as their calf crop were transported to the station during the summer of 1956. The first son of Tarrington Onward to be used at the station, Tarrington 6000 (9468886), was out of the foundation cow, Bar 13 Elizabeth 7 (7152466). To date, a total of 330 inbred calves with an average inbreeding of 36% have been produced.

Real Prince (15). The eight foundation cows of the Real Prince line were of Colorado State College breeding, the majority of which were granddaughters of Real Prince 36 (2873524). The foundation sire, CSC D Prince (52375895), resulted from mating Real Prince 36 to his daughter CSC Jr Real Princess (4316868). CSC D Prince was mated to his inbred half-sisters to initiate the line. A total of four sires were used in this line from 1950 through 1967, after which time the Real Prince line was discontinued due to poor productivity. During the 18 years the Real Prince line remained at the station, a total of 71 inbred calves, with an average inbreeding of 38%, were produced.

Rover (16). Three inbred bulls, UC Rover Premier 11 (8306200), UC Rover Duke 15 (9290373), and UC Rover Duke 13 (9290371), of the Rover line developed at the University of California, Davis, produced linecross progeny in 1957, 1958 and 1960. Matings were made to linecross cows of Brae Arden, Don, La Plata and San Juan breeding. No inbred matings were made on the station; thus, an inbred Rover line was never initiated.

Model Domino (17). The majority of the foundation females of the Model Domino line were primarily daughters or granddaughters of Model Domino Misch (3729729). The foundation sire, CARF Sears 5302 (9091117) (19% inbred), was a double bred grandson of Model Domino Misch through CARF Sears 024 (6332184) and Miss Model Misch 49 (5685254). CARF Sears 5302 was mated to his linebred half-sisters to initiate the Model Domino line. Only two calf crop (1958 and 1959) were weaned. Only five inbred calves, with an average inbreeding of 23%, were produced in the Model Domino line prior to being discontinued because of poor productivity.

Electra (19). The Electra line was initiated and maintained off the station of a Colorado breeder from 1952 until 1968 through the lease of ten cows and Valiant Mesa (P7566741), the foundation sire of the line. Valiant Mesa was sired by Valiant Trumode (435986) and was out of Ellen Royal (436317). Valiant Mesa and his sons were mated to these ten cows and their offspring to maintain the Electra line. In 1969, three daughters and three granddaughters of Valiant Mesa were returned to the station along with the bull, Atomic V Mesa 6704 (1463801). Atomic V Mesa 6704 produced progeny in the Electra line from 1970 through 1972. During the 14 years the line existed at the station (1968 through 1982), a total of 120 inbred calves with an average inbreeding of 28% were produced.

Ouray (23). In 1966, the high gaining linecross bull of the 1965-66 performance test, Prospector SJ 5472 (13671349), was mated to a randomly selected group of linecross cows. Prospector SJ 5472 was sired by the inbred sire, Prospector 9022 (10875749) and was out of a San Juan linecross dam, Juanita BA 0067 (11307009). The resulting progeny exhibited unusually high performance and a new inbred line, Ouray, was formed using Prospector SJ 5472 as the foundation sire. In 1968, Prospector SJ 5472 was mated to five of his daughters, as well as to a group of linecross cows of predominantly Colorado, Don, Monarch, Prospector, and Tarrington breeding. In 1969 his son Prospector T 7572 (14661067), out of the 1967 progeny group, was mated to his half-sisters and linecross cows of similar breeding. Thus, the Ouray line was initiated through sire-daughter, half-sib and outcross matings. To date, a total of 180 inbred calves with an average inbreeding of 21% have been produced.

Hermosa (24). The foundation females of the Hermosa line were of Brae Arden, Royal and San Juan breeding. Brae Arden R 8434 (15156137), one of the two foundation sires of this line, was sired by the inbred sire, Brae Arden 5642 (13671428) and was out of the linecross dam Royalita SJ 2107 (12321265). Brae Arden R 8434 produced progeny in 1971 and 1972. The other foundation sire, Brae Arden SJ 0788 (15594332) was sired by Brae Arden 5410 (13671320) and was out of the linecross dam, Juanita R 4431 (13303374). Brae Arden SJ 0788 produced progeny in 1972 and 1973 and his son, Hermosa 2414 (16109246) produced progeny in 1974. During the 12 years (1971 through 1982) the Hermosa line was in existence, a total of 8 different sires were used, producing 112 inbred calves with an average inbreeding of 19%.

Regal (29). The foundation dams of the Regal line were Brae Arden x San Juan linecross females. The foundation sire, Tarrington SJ 7104 (17346536), sired by Tarrington 2634 (16109323), produced a total of 13 inbred calves from 1979-1982. Only three other sires, all of which were progeny of Tarrington SJ 7104, have been used in the line. Together with Tarrington SJ 7104, Regal 9066 (17714999), Regal 0222 (17947579) and Regal 2056 (18370566) produced 27 calves with an average inbreeding of 26% over the 8-yr period (1979-1986).

Colorado-Don (30). The Colorado-Don line was formed from animals selected from both the Colorado and Don lines. Colorado-Don 8062 (17540457), the foundation sire of the Colorado-Don line, produced a total of 10 inbred calves in 1980. During the 5 year period (1980-1984) that the Colorado-Don line remained at the station, a total of 48 inbred calves with an average inbreeding of 28% were produced.

Effects of Inbreeding

The effects of inbreeding on reproduction and growth traits, along with the effects of hybrid vigor upon crossing have been well documented. Increased inbreeding has been shown to have detrimental effects on reproductive traits and measures of early growth.
Heterosis estimates averaged 10% for weaning weight and ranged from 5 to 10% for postweaning growth traits.
Response to selection studies indicated that the development of inbred lines, with subsequent line crossing, resulted in significant genetic progress over time. Line cross calves averaged 4.62 lbs./year improvement over a 25 year period.

George
 

Idaman

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Hereford.US - You are truly amazing. I ate up every word of that post. What memories. I knew and saw an awful lot of those cattle and knew what their reputation was in the real world.

Its too late now but tomorrow I will post on my ompressions.
 

alexfarms

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Northern Rancher":29rzdi67 said:
One word WINTER!!!! From your pics I don't think I've seen anything matches up with -50 and a wind. Your droughts are more severe than ours but we still have them. For guys running in tough country your better off running bulls raised in similar country. Cattle raised in kinder gentler conditions can be used in those same ones. Watching genetics melt down isn't my favorite spectator sport.


Cattle are very adaptable. As long as they are getting an adequate diet no one environment is "tougher" than another. What makes cattle "melt down" is a change in environment. Especially when you take a mature animal and remove it from the environment it was raised in and plant it in a different environment it becomes very stressed and needs time to adapt to its new environment. When I lived in northeast Nebraska in a very good productive land area, I purchased cattle from Miles City (where they claim to give pairs 25+ acres each), western Nebraska sandhills and west Texas cactus country and all of them melted down to some extent when I brought them to a "better" land area. Most of them got culled within a couple years and they all would have if I hadn't given them either extra care or an extra chance. I have had better results transplanting young animals from any environment to another.
 

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Response to selection studies indicated that the development of inbred lines, with subsequent line crossing, resulted in significant genetic progress over time. Line cross calves averaged 4.62 lbs./year improvement over a 25 year period

I certainly am not knocking the cattle or the research BUT 4.62 lbs a year improvement in weaning weight is probably achievable (especially back before cattle were selected for weaning weight) with outcrossing, crossbreeding, chasing weaning wt EPDs, or any other intense method of selection for weaning weight.

For example if weaning weight at the beginning of the test was 450 lbs, by the end of the 25 year study weaning weight would be 565.5 by my math. Most older commercial cattlemen can remember similar improvements from ~1975 to ~2000 in their own herds. I don't know that I would credit the improvement with the creation of inbred lines as much as I would credit the fact that they were selecting for the trait.
 

Herefords.US

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Brandonm22":1zc70pzg said:
Response to selection studies indicated that the development of inbred lines, with subsequent line crossing, resulted in significant genetic progress over time. Line cross calves averaged 4.62 lbs./year improvement over a 25 year period

I certainly am not knocking the cattle or the research BUT 4.62 lbs a year improvement in weaning weight is probably achievable (especially back before cattle were selected for weaning weight) with outcrossing, crossbreeding, chasing weaning wt EPDs, or any other intense method of selection for weaning weight.

For example if weaning weight at the beginning of the test was 450 lbs, by the end of the 25 year study weaning weight would be 565.5 by my math. Most older commercial cattlemen can remember similar improvements from ~1975 to ~2000 in their own herds. I don't know that I would credit the improvement with the creation of inbred lines as much as I would credit the fact that they were selecting for the trait.

I'm in the process of gathering up and reading all the formal papers that have been written regarding this research now. My initial impression is that this summary added to the bottom of this web-page is simplistic and rather poorly worded for all that was done. I don't think that weaning weight improvement was the primary focus of a lot of this research. Some of the early research work done was to identify dwarf carriers and eliminate the genetic disorder from the lines.

George
 

Idaman

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Hereford.US - You are exactly correct in your assertion that the study was primarily for other traits, mostly about dwarf carriers and other potential genetic defects. I know for positive that the Baca lines were carriers as they came from the Baca Grant Ranch at Creston. We used their bulls in the maybe late 40s and they produced dwarfs for us.

To my recollection the Brae Ardens were used the most extensively by other breeders. Next came the Prospectors, Ourays, Royals, and Tarringtons in roughly that order. I don't know if the other lines were used "outside" or not. They were all horribly ugly cattle. We all kept trying to find one that we could take home but most people passed. Whoever picked the foundation cattle sure never picked a good looking one in the whole bunch. There is a possibility that they weren't given open access to the foundation herds.

One line was reportedly terminated when the fourth generation bulls lost their testicles. I have mentioned this before in regard to line and inbreeding eliminating a defect. The whole purpose of the breeder is not to select around these traits but to let them run to their natural conclusion and that more often than not is a lethal flaw that completely eliminates that line.

Please share your impressions with us of the work at Hesperus. I was never there but knew some of the people involved. I sure knew of the cattle and fed some on our bull test. CSU also had another herd of more conventional cattle up at Ft. Collins. I believe that they were initiated more from donated cattle and semen than the Hesperus cattle. A bull by the name of The Ram was purchased from there that went to Westciffe for herd bull duties.
 

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Knersie - No we now run almost all baldies in the commercials. We need that extra 5 to 10 cents they bring. Although straight horned Herford heifers and cows really bring a premium here. I can't resist the dig that the polleds really suffer in this area. At the same time we are really concentrating on the improvement of our purebreds because at some time that pendulum will swing the other way and we want to be ready with lines already in place.

We are at this moment assembling an Angus purebred herd to produce our own bulls exactly like what has been so successful for us with the Herefords. The Angus type will be as close to the Hereford type as we can find and we will linebreed those cattle as well. Shortly as a greater number of our commercial cows turn up solid black we will go back to the Hereford bulls for more baldies. I hace noticed that with the movement toward blacks it has already really improved our straight Herefords as if they aren't truly outstanding they get replaced leaving only the very best.
 

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Yes, definitely. We sometimes wait to register them when they are more mature.
They spend their first couple calf years running out year round with the commercials to see how they will do. If they come back with flying colors then we breed them in the purebred herd.
 

KNERSIE

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Idaman":2wjm4078 said:
Yes, definitely. We sometimes wait to register them when they are more mature.
They spend their first couple calf years running out year round with the commercials to see how they will do. If they come back with flying colors then we breed them in the purebred herd.

Thats good to hear, it would have been such a waste of good old genetics it they weren't. Do you still linebreed?
 

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Idaman... Stan Jacobs is the Ranch manager. The last 6 years I have bought loads of cows out of Douglas Lake. They preg check the cows and anything calving after April 15th is culled whether they are bred or not, so I buy them out of the auction mart for slaughter price, bring em here and preg check em and they are always 75-85% bred from April 20th-June 20th, which fits into my calving! Problem is they are wilder than any cow I have ever seen, will clear any fence I own and cant handle a Saskatchewan Winter!!! I have had alot better luck buying their Black Brockle face cows and not bothering with their hereford cows anymore. Put them in the feedlot for a month and walk through em every day and I would say 95% of them are fairly calm by calving time. So where abouts are you located Idaman, I am intrigued and was thinking about coming out that direction this summer to go to Douglas Lake and then into Washington to see Bill Bennett's herd.
 

Idaman

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BIZIN - First I absolutely love Canadians and still have many friends up there. Some of my closest. I will write about them at sometime even though they are still alive.

I did not know Stan Jacobs but the guy I knew was probably his predessor. I knew Larry Ramsted that went to the Gang Ranch and I will try to remember the name of the manager I knew. I did not know that the Douglas Lake cattle were that wild. When they participated in the Panorama the sale group always went down to the ranch because they had several thousand for sale. The smaller places or more remote ones ended up in Kamloops or Williams Lake. I think the group maybe went out to Alkalai Lake Ranch for those cattle.

We quit the Panorama when we switched to selling calves from yearlings and two year olds. Buying their open black baldies sounds like a good plan that should work really well. Losts of uniformity and heartiness bred in.


I now operate in Idaho and you are welcome anytime. When we were in BC we owned the Empire Valley Ranch which is now a Provincial park. You can access that info from a Churn Creek grass lands website if you are interested.
 

BIZIN

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Where abouts in Idaho are you located? We have some feedlot customers I wanted to visit in Idaho and some Bison customers, I also have a family friend who manages a few dairies in Idaho. I am 25 and really interested in getting more hereford cows but want to do it right. We run our cows hard and they have to do it on their own. I want easy fleshing cows that are small to moderate framed, good bags, good feet, longevity and are consistent and uniformed, preferably dark red. I would like a cow that will max out at 1100-1200lbs. Who would you recommend going to see? What are your thoughts on pigment? There are alot of guys on here that I love reading your guys posts, really interesting to me as dad has talked about all these herds as I have grown up. He used to run a hereford bull test station north of Regina and then converted it to a multiple breed test station.
 

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Knersie - We do still line breed to some extent but not as much as we should. The line breeding is usually on the cow side for us. We buy a herd bull or use some semen and the get a son out of our cows and then we breed him to his half sisters as well as his full sisters and his mother. When we get too many of his daughters in the herd then we start the whole process over.

We have a lot of old Canadian semen so we can go to that at any time. We will not use stud semen or anything that is in the vogue at the moment. We are not opportunity breeders. Our next project is to locate bulls that are bred like our older cows and go back some in time to repeat the process.

We had good luck with some Quantock bulls back a bull or two in our pedigrees but they don't have any of that old breeding in their pedigrees so that may mean we should leave them alone.
 

Idaman

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BIZIN":22a3d06q said:
Where abouts in Idaho are you located? We have some feedlot customers I wanted to visit in Idaho and some Bison customers, I also have a family friend who manages a few dairies in Idaho. I am 25 and really interested in getting more hereford cows but want to do it right. We run our cows hard and they have to do it on their own. I want easy fleshing cows that are small to moderate framed, good bags, good feet, longevity and are consistent and uniformed, preferably dark red. I would like a cow that will max out at 1100-1200lbs. Who would you recommend going to see? What are your thoughts on pigment? There are alot of guys on here that I love reading your guys posts, really interesting to me as dad has talked about all these herds as I have grown up. He used to run a hereford bull test station north of Regina and then converted it to a multiple breed test station.

I will PM you our current location. As for the moderate sized cows I would recommend probably the Deewall cows in Kansas or maybe the Shaw cattle here in Idaho. I would be very carful buying any southern cattle as they just won't acclimate to Sask. A bull probably would but the females no. I personally like pigment but it is not a characteristic we select for as our bulls go mostly on black and baldy cows.
 
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