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Hereford bulls

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redcowsrule33

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As long as we are discussing Herefords, can I add SOUTH BUKALONG SHANNON 40? ABS picked him up but no proofs were posted on their site.

Not trying to hijack your thread PAL, just wanted to add to the list as long as you're looking at an Aussie bull. :tiphat:
 

Baldie Maker

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Shannon has aussie epds in the actually hardcopy of the sire directory.. not on the net.
 
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P.A.L

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redcowsrule33":36zgegc8 said:
As long as we are discussing Herefords, can I add SOUTH BUKALONG SHANNON 40? ABS picked him up but no proofs were posted on their site.

Not trying to hijack your thread PAL, just wanted to add to the list as long as you're looking at an Aussie bull. :tiphat:


I'm always interested to find new bulls, but are they available to EU. Mostly not. What kind of coat aussie herefords have?
 

alexfarms

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P.A.L":29mt14gv said:
What do you think? They might be availabel for AI. I'm interested are there any problems in the breeding of these bulls?

http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i ... 2=43425D5E

and

http://www.moeskaer.dk/Realgood.htm

Here's the second bull:
http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 5&9=525350

The first bull has the Decathelete bull back in his pedigree a ways. Decathelete carried the hyptotrichosis gene through the MSU Optimum bull and back to JR Nick the Butler p183.

The second bull has S Titan 7777, who carried the diluter gene.

It is difficult to tell whether either of these genetic problems were ever bred out of these two bulls or not, but the carrier bulls are quite a ways back so they may well have been by now.
 

buymorebulls

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MSU Optimum Z03 was always assumed to be a carrier of HY because of P183 in his pedigree, but as it turns out Z03 is NOT a carrier. Z03 has been tested clean for HY.

It is expected that further into the dam's pedigree is where the HY gene originates. LS Beau Victor 1 30 is seven generations back in Decathlete's pedigree and he is a known carrier of HY (although he is not yet officially recognized by AHA). Also there is another potential suspect sire 5 generations back that has yet to be tested.
 

alexfarms

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buymorebulls":krbqm313 said:
MSU Optimum Z03 was always assumed to be a carrier of HY because of P183 in his pedigree, but as it turns out Z03 is NOT a carrier. Z03 has been tested clean for HY.

It is expected that further into the dam's pedigree is where the HY gene originates. LS Beau Victor 1 30 is seven generations back in Decathlete's pedigree and he is a known carrier of HY (although he is not yet officially recognized by AHA). Also there is another potential suspect sire 5 generations back that has yet to be tested.

Certainly is possible. That cow also has RWJ Victor J3 212 in her pedigree, closer up than 1 30. HY has been around a long time. Do they have a dna test for HY?
 

alexfarms

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buymorebulls":3ckmu6df said:
RWJ 212 bull has not been tested to date.

I don't think any of these bulls have been dna tested for HY, have they? Did they develop a dna test for it? The bulls that were on the carrier list had produced 2 or more that were reported to the AHA and proven as progeny.
 
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P.A.L

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Ok....So is it safe to use these bulls? I'm wondering why there is no availabel newer picture of this Real Good bull? only a yearling picture at starlake cattle co's semen catalog?
 

buymorebulls

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DNA test for HY has recently been completed.
LS Beau Victor 1 30, WNH CHR MCA Decathlete and JR Nick The Butler P183 all DNA tested as carriers.
MSU Optimum Z03 and Feltons 517 were DNA tested "clean".
AHA board of directors has not yet recoginized the test (or possibly have yet to "reviewed it"). Thus the test is not yet commercially available.
Any sire with Decathlete in its pedigree is "unknown" until tested.

The other bull is no longer listed for semen sales by Star Lake. Not sure if that means anything but worth investigating. There are known carriers of the DL gene that are paternal sibs to his maternal grand sire. DL is not a lethal defect and may not be an economic loss or cause for concern in European countries.
 

alexfarms

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buymorebulls":3eh8rnud said:
DNA test for HY has recently been completed.
LS Beau Victor 1 30, WNH CHR MCA Decathlete and JR Nick The Butler P183 all DNA tested as carriers.
MSU Optimum Z03 and Feltons 517 were DNA tested "clean".
AHA board of directors has not yet recoginized the test (or possibly have yet to "reviewed it"). Thus the test is not yet commercially available.
Any sire with Decathlete in its pedigree is "unknown" until tested.

The other bull is no longer listed for semen sales by Star Lake. Not sure if that means anything but worth investigating. There are known carriers of the DL gene that are paternal sibs to his maternal grand sire. DL is not a lethal defect and may not be an economic loss or cause for concern in European countries.

That is interesting. I have seen no announcements that a dna test for HY had been found. You state that "there are known carriers of the DL gene that are patermal sibs to his (Real Good's) maternal grand sire." Felton Jumbo 112's sire is Felton Sounder 912 and I did a search of his registered progeny and none of them are listed as DL carriers. So, how do I get access to the kind of information you obviously have access to?
 

alexfarms

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P.A.L":2107uvw5 said:
Ok....So is it safe to use these bulls? I'm wondering why there is no availabel newer picture of this Real Good bull? only a yearling picture at starlake cattle co's semen catalog?


Both bulls contain known carriers of genetic abnormalities, although both abnormalities are not lethal. If you use either of them, then you will be running the risk of introducing genetic abnormalities into your herd. You could possible do a dna test on the semen from them to prove them free of the abnormalities or use them and test their progeny. It just depends on how good you believe the bulls are and how concerned you are about genetic abnormalities.
 

Brandonm22

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alexfarms":bot7h0uc said:
That is interesting. I have seen no announcements that a dna test for HY had been found. You state that "there are known carriers of the DL gene that are patermal sibs to his (Real Good's) maternal grand sire." Felton Jumbo 112's sire is Felton Sounder 912 and I did a search of his registered progeny and none of them are listed as DL carriers. So, how do I get access to the kind of information you obviously have access to?

Same here. I know that I am understandably "out of the loop"; but if there is a secret DNA test for hypotrichosis and a secret list of HY carriers (other than the short one at the AHA website) and HY frees I need to learn the secret hand shake and find out who sells the secret decoder rings.
 

buymorebulls

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AHA doesn't list the 7777 bull as a DL carrier but most everyone knows that he was. How'd you know that he was?

The secret decoder ring/access is............do the research and check with fellow breeders and the breeder that bred the animal(s) and breeders that now own the cattle. Ask a lot of questions.

Some animals do get tested early on to help "prove" the test, including "suspect carriers", "unknowns" and "known non-carriers". Breeders asked to submit DNA early in the research process help prove the test. So, if a breed association or a researcher calls you to ask for DNA to help develop a test, it is in the breeders best interest to provide the DNA.

Also, because AHA recognizes only testing done at Maxxum Analytics, some of those early tested animals may, or may not, get official recognition. Lastly, I invite you to read (re-read) the November 2008 Performance Matters column in the Hereford World. Under the "AHA testing & disclosure procedures", pay attention to item #8. http://www.herefordworld.org/_HW/Documents/1108_PerfMatters.pdf
 

alexfarms

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buymorebulls":2yqk9ff1 said:
AHA doesn't list the 7777 bull as a DL carrier but most everyone knows that he was. How'd you know that he was?

The secret decoder ring/access is............do the research and check with fellow breeders and the breeder that bred the animal(s) and breeders that now own the cattle. Ask a lot of questions.

Some animals do get tested early on to help "prove" the test, including "suspect carriers", "unknowns" and "known non-carriers". Breeders asked to submit DNA early in the research process help prove the test. So, if a breed association or a researcher calls you to ask for DNA to help develop a test, it is in the breeders best interest to provide the DNA.

Also, because AHA recognizes only testing done at Maxxum Analytics, some of those early tested animals may, or may not, get official recognition. Lastly, I invite you to read (re-read) the November 2008 Performance Matters column in the Hereford World. Under the "AHA testing & disclosure procedures", pay attention to item #8. http://www.herefordworld.org/_HW/Documents/1108_PerfMatters.pdf

How did I know about 7777? The AHA sure didn't tell me. I had heard rumors about him for years.
It just doesn't work to listen to all the rumors, because there are rumors about every successfull bull or bloodline and not all of them are true. If I believed all the rumors, I wouldn't want to use any of them, including the ones I am using now. As far as checking out the rumors, that won't work either. It is strange that you would even suggest such a thing. You think it is my job to contact breeders and ask them if a rumor I heard is true? That is just strange. I read item #8 and I had read it before and I don't have access to any of that. Do you? If I contacted Dr. Beaver for information, would he release it to me?
 

alexfarms

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buymorebulls":1mexk4k5 said:
AHA doesn't list the 7777 bull as a DL carrier but most everyone knows that he was. How'd you know that he was?

The secret decoder ring/access is............do the research and check with fellow breeders and the breeder that bred the animal(s) and breeders that now own the cattle. Ask a lot of questions.

Some animals do get tested early on to help "prove" the test, including "suspect carriers", "unknowns" and "known non-carriers". Breeders asked to submit DNA early in the research process help prove the test. So, if a breed association or a researcher calls you to ask for DNA to help develop a test, it is in the breeders best interest to provide the DNA.

Also, because AHA recognizes only testing done at Maxxum Analytics, some of those early tested animals may, or may not, get official recognition. Lastly, I invite you to read (re-read) the November 2008 Performance Matters column in the Hereford World. Under the "AHA testing & disclosure procedures", pay attention to item #8. http://www.herefordworld.org/_HW/Documents/1108_PerfMatters.pdf

I have tried to email Dr Beever with the email address listed in the HW article in the link you gave and I never get through. Is there a new email address? Or a phone number, maybe?
 

Northern Rancher

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Want to know how I found out 7777's was a counterfeit SOB-I got a 100% grey rattailed smokes out of my straightbred Angus cows-to put it lightly I was not impressed.
 

Aaron

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P.A.L":1ztcfjvh said:
What do you think? They might be availabel for AI. I'm interested are there any problems in the breeding of these bulls?

http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i ... 2=43425D5E

and

http://www.moeskaer.dk/Realgood.htm

Good genes in the first bull. Not keen on the Remitall cattle in it, but the rest are top notch. Good looking bull too.

Second bull a little more familiar with. His sire, Nugget, is much the same as Real Good. I actually was trying to purchase Nugget as a calf at Agribition. Lots of muscle in the loin area (more than I have ever seen) with a focus more on carcass than anything else. Never thought of Nugget's daughters as real performers as calves. Average I would say. Feltons Jumbo was a good bull for the Guilford boys. Functional females. Usually end up bidding on the daughters and granddaughters off that bull when I go to their sales. :cowboy:
 
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