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Hereford bulls on those black cows $$$$$$$$$

S&S Farms

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Circle A Angus Ranch teamed up with the American Hereford Association (AHA) in 2007 to determine and measure the advantage of using Hereford bulls on Angus-based cows. The results were impressive. The data was collected by Circle A staff and analyzed by Dan Moser, associate professor of genetics at Kansas State University and Vern Pierce, professor of agricultural economics at University of Missouri.
Here are the highlights:

600 Angus cows were randomly bred to 10 Hereford bulls. The resulting progeny was compared to the offspring from three proven Angus sires.

The Hereford-sired calves were 3 lb. heavier than the Angus calves at birth. But averaging 72 lb., the weight was nearly ideal for commercial operations.

At weaning, the Hereford-sired calves were 11.9 lb. heavier than the Angus-sired calves, despite the Angus sires ranking in the top 20% of their breed for weaning weight EPD.

Heifer calves were bred with the baldies showing a 7% advantage in conception rates over the straight Angus heifers.

75 of the Hereford-sired bred heifers were sold at Circle A’s annual production sale, where they sold for about $110 more than their Angus counterparts.

Part of the steers were placed on feed efficiency test at Circle A’s feedlot. The Hereford-sired calves outgained the Angus by .15 lb. per day.

While both breed groups were similar for fat thickness (Angus = 0.52 vs. Hereford = 0.54), Hereford-sired steers had about 13 more lb. of carcass weight and about 3/4 of an inch more ribeye area.
Pierce set up an economic model to measure the advantages of this data for a typical operation. He says the advantage of using Herefords will be multiplied over the 10-year model.
In the model using Hereford bulls on Angus-based cows will add $514 net over 10 years or about $51 per year per cow.

Economic models also predicted that if replacement females were retained over a period of 10 years, Hereford-sired females would generate a 20% advantage in herd size for the same relative cost versus the straight Angus commercial cows because of increased fertility and longevity.
Pierce says, “The bottom line is if a rancher with Angus-based cows uses Hereford bulls compared to using Angus bulls and gets the same response as we had in this study, he will have improved cash flow, increased herd size and more calves to sell over a 10-year period.”


Something to chew on

Jeff
 

TexasBred

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sooknortex":1at8c1dc said:
I'm sure Frankie, will find a way to disagree. Nothing can compare to God's own breed, Angus, don't cha know?
:lol:


Sook......PMS ?????? Depression ??? Red a$$???
 

TexasBred

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sooknortex":aznht2uz said:
If I'd have wanted your input, I'd have jerked your chain Shirley.

ROFLMAO.....come on...confide in us...PMS gettin' you are do you just always zip around with your stinger out "Grasshopper"?
 

TexasBred

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sooknortex":2kvfgeem said:
Hey, Aggot...

What did the "Aggie" graduate say to the UT graduate upon meeting?
Welcome to McDonald's, may I take your oder please?


LOL...

Holla back when you get a break at McDonalds! I hear they have wireless now!


lol, I can't let you in Mickey D's....no pets allowed. But we have a fire hydrant out back for you Mr. GED.
 

texbulldog

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How many of the calfs were black hided in this test? Interested in the ratio of blacks.
 

Workinonit Farm

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texbulldog":1n2mcj3t said:
How many of the calfs were black hided in this test? Interested in the ratio of blacks.

I would imagine 75% or more. Breeding Hereford to black Angus generally results in a black with a white faced offspring....most of the time, unless the black cow is carrying the red gene.

Katherine
 

Alberta farmer

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I suspect if they did another study breeding Angus bulls to straightbred hereford cows you would get the same results? The only difference would be that the straight bred hereford calves would sell for much less than the Angus calves?
Now it might be different wherever you are, but in Alberta a straightbred hereford calf is going to be discounted close to ten cents a pound. There is a reason for that...they don't perform in the feedlot. The feedlot buyers know this.
 

VanC

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Alberta farmer":m90wk051 said:
I suspect if they did another study breeding Angus bulls to straightbred hereford cows you would get the same results? The only difference would be that the straight bred hereford calves would sell for much less than the Angus calves?
Now it might be different wherever you are, but in Alberta a straightbred hereford calf is going to be discounted close to ten cents a pound. There is a reason for that...they don't perform in the feedlot. The feedlot buyers know this.

Around here, straightbred Hereford are discounted, too, but it's not because they don't do well in the feedlot. They do just fine compared to Angus or any other breed. It's because they aren't black, and therefore don't qualify for CAB premiums. Around here, a black baldy will outsell a straightbred Angus, or any other solid black, nine times out of ten. Why would an animal with obvious Hereford influence outsell a straightbred Angus if Herefords don't do well in the feedlot?
 

Alberta farmer

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Black baldys sell well here too. But straight herefords don't. Most crossbred calves will out perform straight bred calves in the feedlot. CAB isn't a big thing up here but carcass quality is and the buyers definitely want Angus or Angus influenced calves mostly. They will also pay top price for char/hereford crosses because they perform very well in the feedlot.
Seeing a hereford bull in a pasture is getting to be very rare in my area. The same goes for cow herds. Yesterdays breed in my opinion.
 

DFF

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S&S Farms":qnnq568h said:
Circle A Angus Ranch teamed up with the American Hereford Association (AHA) in 2007 to determine and measure the advantage of using Hereford bulls on Angus-based cows. The results were impressive. The data was collected by Circle A staff and analyzed by Dan Moser, associate professor of genetics at Kansas State University and Vern Pierce, professor of agricultural economics at University of Missouri.
Here are the highlights:

600 Angus cows were randomly bred to 10 Hereford bulls. The resulting progeny was compared to the offspring from three proven Angus sires.

The Hereford-sired calves were 3 lb. heavier than the Angus calves at birth. But averaging 72 lb., the weight was nearly ideal for commercial operations.

At weaning, the Hereford-sired calves were 11.9 lb. heavier than the Angus-sired calves, despite the Angus sires ranking in the top 20% of their breed for weaning weight EPD.

Heifer calves were bred with the baldies showing a 7% advantage in conception rates over the straight Angus heifers.

75 of the Hereford-sired bred heifers were sold at Circle A’s annual production sale, where they sold for about $110 more than their Angus counterparts.

Part of the steers were placed on feed efficiency test at Circle A’s feedlot. The Hereford-sired calves outgained the Angus by .15 lb. per day.

While both breed groups were similar for fat thickness (Angus = 0.52 vs. Hereford = 0.54), Hereford-sired steers had about 13 more lb. of carcass weight and about 3/4 of an inch more ribeye area.
Pierce set up an economic model to measure the advantages of this data for a typical operation. He says the advantage of using Herefords will be multiplied over the 10-year model.
In the model using Hereford bulls on Angus-based cows will add $514 net over 10 years or about $51 per year per cow.

Economic models also predicted that if replacement females were retained over a period of 10 years, Hereford-sired females would generate a 20% advantage in herd size for the same relative cost versus the straight Angus commercial cows because of increased fertility and longevity.
Pierce says, “The bottom line is if a rancher with Angus-based cows uses Hereford bulls compared to using Angus bulls and gets the same response as we had in this study, he will have improved cash flow, increased herd size and more calves to sell over a 10-year period.”


Something to chew on

Jeff
Jeff Isn't this great! Nothing we in the business didn't already know. In reference to the post that all have the 5-10 cent price back on calves, This past year I have sold straight herfs for same $ as blacks, Baldies top market, and have sold some 3-5 cents back of my black calves, but I can say that the herfs weighed more, could/should of (cant back up with individual feed records as all are handled the same) did it on less feed, and would'nt have to repair facilities if all herfs, so after 3-5 cents back, still netted more $ in the end, as well as cows settled sooner and didnt have to mess with crazy black bull.
And to the Gentleman from Canada,I think the disapearing cattle in your area has little to do with hide color.
Larry (DFF)
 

user1

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one crazy can take the profit out of a hundred head. Here the herfs and herf influenced ones are in demand for that reason and they convert better.
 

VanC

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Larry and user1 both make excellent points. More production and a higher selling price are important, but they don't always mean higher profits when all is said and done. Input costs that get you to that point are just as important, if not more so, in determining profit. That can be said of any business.
 

Alberta farmer

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Sorry wasn't trying to create a lot of controversy...just saying it how I see it. Not sure what the comment was about color?
I think the average order buyer for the big feedlots knows pretty well what will perform...and what won't? I doubt very much they are "color conscious"? They know what cattle will work for their customer...the feedlot?
Up here they want a predominantly black or red calf with a lot of obvious Angus influence. Again I stress they will take a Char cross at close to the same money! However if you want to see poor selling calves just observe straight bred herefords, or straightbred shorthorns...which are both pretty rare anymore...most guys only need to see a couple of years of poor prices before they figure it out?
Most of the straightbred hereford guys are old people who don't really care if they make any money. Just my observations and opinion.
 

KNERSIE

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Funny that Canadian herefords perform so poorly in feedlots when herefords in the rest of the world outperform most breeds in the feedlot situation for efficiency of converting.

Aaron, Bez, and other Canadian hereford farmers, what are you guys doing wrong?
 

Northern Rancher

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Knersie I imagine the guy who is doin' the talking has never fed any cattle of his own-I've fed alot of baldies and they feed just fine. The best cattle to buy for grass cattle are straight Herfords-they do sell as bit bacxk as calves but at or near blacks as long yearlings. We just closed a pen of cat cattle the premium for a AAA-Y3 is the same as for a AA-Y1-I'm pretty sure most cattle are a AA Y1 on the way to being a AAA Y3-this begs the question do you add days on feed trying to reach CAB or take your money and run as AA Y1's. Of course the cattle that premum the best are Prime yield grade 1's-I haven't raised alot of them but the cow that has raised the most for me is 3/4 Horned Hereford.
 

P.A.L

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I've heard also that Herefords beats Angus in effiency. One Australian study says that char, lim and herf are the best "feed converters" and poorest are shorthorn and angus. Dont know is it true or false then.

So Is it marbling that makes canadien ranchers choose Angus (or what are those AAA's :lol: )
 

Northern Rancher

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We run black baldie cows because of the good mothers they make-Angus and Hprned Hereford compliment each other well in a cowherd-good marbling carcasses are a bonus to the cross not a reason we use it.
 

Herefords.US

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KNERSIE":1qfyvdjd said:
Funny that Canadian herefords perform so poorly in feedlots when herefords in the rest of the world outperform most breeds in the feedlot situation for efficiency of converting.

Aaron, Bez, and other Canadian hereford farmers, what are you guys doing wrong?

Knersie, I suspect the contradiction lies in THIS part of his statement:

Alberta farmer":1qfyvdjd said:
Just my observations and opinion.

Some people only "observe" what they WANT to see, therefore their "opinions" usually aren't factually based.

George
 

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