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hereford bulls horned or polled?

rook

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I need advice on a replacement bull. I only have 14 commercial angus cows,local vet recomended hereford bull. I have only had experience with angus bull. Thinking of getting older hereford bull and keeping till all are bred. Would like to have a few black baldies for future mommas. Had no problem with calving from angus bull,but some of cows are alittle smaller framed.What are the pros and cons of hereford bulls? What are the pros and cons of horned vs polled? Or should I stick with black angus?
 

novatech

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I think you could get just as good genetics with either. If you plan on selling I would go with the poled as it is one less step in not having to dehorn. Easier on the cattle too. I think most people prefer dehorned or poled. I know feed lots do.
Going with a Hereford or Angus would depend on your market and we don't have a clue what that would be.
 

grubbie

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You can get a polled bull for the same money as horned. Dehorning to me is a nasty, bloody job, and extremely strenuous on the calf. I see no advantage to having horns.
 

Frankie

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The polled trait is dominant over the horned trait. If your cattle are several generations Angus, you're not likely to get any horned calves anyway. But, of course, I'd say stay with the Angus bull. ;-) But with any breed, study the calving ease and birth weight EPDs. Here's a website that converts EPDs between breeds. It's a couple of years old, maybe someone has a chart from 2008?

http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/Pl ... 06News.pdf
 

KNERSIE

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Pretty much a do you prefer blondes or brunettes deal?

I breed poll herefords because my market demands that, personally I have no problem with using a horned bull or even have horned cows, but I still need to be able to sell them to make money. In the registered herd its better for me to have my cowherd as homozygous polled as possible to limit the amount of heterozygous bulls that goes to the commercial buyer who doesn't want to dehorn. The same principle will apply to you too since you plan to retain some of the baldies.

There are also schools of thought that will say you get a higher BW out of poll bulls while others say the shape of the poll head makes birthing easier, polls are more proned to prolapse, while horned cows milk heavier, you get more growth in polls, but heavier bone in horned cattle, etc, in my opinion that's just OWT.

You can get what you need in either poll or horned.
 

Bez+

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Don't worry - you will not have horns when breeding to Angus

We run HH and send a few to the Angus people

And we use an Angus clean up bull - that way we know what to toss - anything black - and what to keep - red

They are a fine blend

Pick the bull you like and do not worry

Bez+
 

grubbie

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Bez+":3mkdwh27 said:
Don't worry - you will not have horns when breeding to Angus

We run HH and send a few to the Angus people

And we use an Angus clean up bull - that way we know what to toss - anything black - and what to keep - red

They are a fine blend

Pick the bull you like and do not worry

Bez+
Hmmmmm,....I remember using a horned bull on angus and getting horns. Of course, the angus cows we had back then might not have been 100% registered purebred angus, could that be the reason?
 

Bez+

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grubbie":9w9d3sc5 said:
Bez+":9w9d3sc5 said:
Don't worry - you will not have horns when breeding to Angus

We run HH and send a few to the Angus people

And we use an Angus clean up bull - that way we know what to toss - anything black - and what to keep - red

They are a fine blend

Pick the bull you like and do not worry

Bez+
Hmmmmm,....I remember using a horned bull on angus and getting horns. Of course, the angus cows we had back then might not have been 100% registered purebred angus, could that be the reason?

If you crossed an angus and a herf and got horns on the calves there was something in the wood pile - of that you can be sure

Bez+
 

Frankie

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grubbie":1mby6khl said:
Bez+":1mby6khl said:
Don't worry - you will not have horns when breeding to Angus

We run HH and send a few to the Angus people

And we use an Angus clean up bull - that way we know what to toss - anything black - and what to keep - red

They are a fine blend

Pick the bull you like and do not worry

Bez+
Hmmmmm,....I remember using a horned bull on angus and getting horns. Of course, the angus cows we had back then might not have been 100% registered purebred angus, could that be the reason?

Yes, if you've got "black" cattle they could be carrying the horn gene and produce horned calves when bred to a horned bull. But the more generations of Angus, the less likely it is that you'll get horns. There are several breeds that have turned black these days. A black Limi or Simmi bull (for example) may be polled, but if he's a halfblood and the non-Angus half is horned, then he could be carrying the horned gene and pass it on to his calves. We missed the big Limousin bull sale this year, but in years past, buyers were willing to pay considerably more for a bull that was homozygous polled and black than one that was hetro polled and black or just unknown. But all the bulls sold.
 

KNERSIE

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Even if the angus is 100% airtight purebred angus and you use a horned bull you'll still end up with heterozygous poll black baldies. Use a horned or even a heterozygous poll bull again and you better get the dehorner off the shelf as you'll get between 50% and 25% horned calves uit of the black baldies depending on if the bull was horned or heterozygous polled.

Sometimes we have to think past the first generation.
 

Alberta farmer

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Don't know how relevant this is today: In the 80's The Alberta Hereford association ran a bull test at Innisfail Alberta. Very seldom was a polled bul in the top twenty and out of a couple of hundred bulls about 15 or 20 polled bulls made the cut. This included some of the top polled breeders in Canada and probably North america.
The polled breed also chased the "tall fad" much more than the Horned Hereford and as a result bred a lot of pencil gutted, light boned and poor milking females.
The way that many polled breeders tried to remedy this was throw a good horned bull in there!
Personally I would never buy a polled Hereford bull...but then I wouldn't buy a horned hereford either.
 

grubbie

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Brute 23":3igjgn80 said:
Around here it is hard to find a good polled herford, been looking and not having much luck.
Same here, live in WY, had to get one from SD and one from ND.
 

SRBeef

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With all the dispersal sales going on in the US and Canada in recent months it seems like there would be some good polled Hereford bulls available somewhere. Might be worth trucking one in.

Personally I think the disposition of the Hereford is good to put into a herd. I have a polled Hereford bull that is like a big teddy bear - but yes I am careful around him and don't treat him like the cows. Good luck.
 

rook

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Brute 23":1yqrzj8f said:
Around here it is hard to find a good polled herford, been looking and not having much luck.
Same problem here in west/central alabama,horned herefords and angus are much easier to find locally,not so sure about statewide or east miss.
 

rook

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Frankie":33ygoxiu said:
The polled trait is dominant over the horned trait. If your cattle are several generations Angus, you're not likely to get any horned calves anyway. But, of course, I'd say stay with the Angus bull. ;-) But with any breed, study the calving ease and birth weight EPDs. Here's a website that converts EPDs between breeds. It's a couple of years old, maybe someone has a chart from 2008?

http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/Pl ... 06News.pdf
Thanks for the link,it does help. I liked my old angus bull,but all I hear around here is I need to crossbred.
 

rook

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Alberta farmer":27i5dhgo said:
Don't know how relevant this is today: In the 80's The Alberta Hereford association ran a bull test at Innisfail Alberta. Very seldom was a polled bul in the top twenty and out of a couple of hundred bulls about 15 or 20 polled bulls made the cut. This included some of the top polled breeders in Canada and probably North america.
The polled breed also chased the "tall fad" much more than the Horned Hereford and as a result bred a lot of pencil gutted, light boned and poor milking females.
The way that many polled breeders tried to remedy this was throw a good horned bull in there!
Personally I would never buy a polled Hereford bull...but then I wouldn't buy a horned hereford either.
I've heard some of the same,been told by some of the oldtimers it's hard to find a good polled hereford bull in this part of the woods.
 

rook

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KNERSIE":3470s9h6 said:
Even if the angus is 100% airtight purebred angus and you use a horned bull you'll still end up with heterozygous poll black baldies. Use a horned or even a heterozygous poll bull again and you better get the dehorner off the shelf as you'll get between 50% and 25% horned calves uit of the black baldies depending on if the bull was horned or heterozygous polled.

Sometimes we have to think past the first generation.
That could be one of my downfalls, I dont know how (airtight) my small herd is. The work of dehorning doesn't bother me to much as I know with my luck there WILL be a few. Am I going in the right direction?
 

dun

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rook":3mkx74zf said:
That could be one of my downfalls, I dont know how (airtight) my small herd is. The work of dehorning doesn't bother me to much as I know with my luck there WILL be a few. Am I going in the right direction?

If you don;t mind dehorning (a convience trait) find the best bull of either persuasion you can afford. I would be more concerned with maternal traits if I was looking for replacements or carcass traits if I was looking for feeders.
If you have a couple of cows you would really like to build a herd around you could AI those cows to a top maternal bull and use a good carcass bull for cleanup.
 

rook

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dun":6mflwx8h said:
If you don;t mind dehorning (a convience trait) find the best bull of either persuasion you can afford. I would be more concerned with maternal traits if I was looking for replacements or carcass traits if I was looking for feeders.
If you have a couple of cows you would really like to build a herd around you could AI those cows to a top maternal bull and use a good carcass bull for cleanup.
Good point,hadn't given AI conceipt much thought, will have to research that option.
 

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