Hereford bull calf

[oakcreekfarms]

my point was if you raise 85% culls you have a problem. That is my opinion

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

What would be the normal cull rate in a well developed herd?

 

[ANAZAZI]

my point was if you raise 85% culls you have a problem. That is my opinion

If you sell 85% of the heifers this means you are culling 15% of the cows. A normal culling.
We can not keep all, nor sell all.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

I don't worry about %'s. I cull them based on my own protocol and what I have left I keep. At this point I don't have the numbers to justify selling good replacement heifers, so I keep everything that I think is of the quality I want. For the bulls, all the bulls that get through my culling will make good bulls. If that is 5% of my herd then I used the wrong genetics, if it is 75% then I better re breed the cows the same way.

 

[Ned Jr.]

my point was if you raise 85% culls you have a problem. That is my opinion

I'm with oakcreek. I understand keeping only the best for bulls and replacement heifers but if only 15 - 20% were worthy I think I'd just sell the whole darn herd and start over. Then with the new herd I'd try to improve my herd bull selection and the bulls I chose to AI to. Then if I did my homework right everyone of the heifers should have the potential of being better that there dams. I'd continually sell cows that weren't getting the job done.

I know selling cows and raising replacements may not be the most cost efficient thing to do but I do feel it's the best way to improve your herd. And I think in the long run it pays.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

my point was if you raise 85% culls you have a problem. That is my opinion

I'm with oakcreek. I understand keeping only the best for bulls and replacement heifers but if only 15 - 20% were worthy I think I'd just sell the whole darn herd and start over. Then with the new herd I'd try to improve my herd bull selection and the bulls I chose to AI to. Then if I did my homework right everyone of the heifers should have the potential of being better that there dams. I'd continually sell cows that weren't getting the job done.

I know selling cows and raising replacements may not be the most cost efficient thing to do but I do feel it's the best way to improve your herd. And I think in the long run it pays.

especially right now,,,, money would be better spent on herd improver bull

 

[Ned Jr.]

So are you saying you should keep those cows that aren't raising replacement quality calves, sell the heifer calves and hope to buy enough bull power to make up for poorer cows with the money saved from not develpoing heifers?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

im saying here with cull's bringing top dollar.. how can you afford to buy back quality??? aleast ""i"" cant.. be easier for me to breed up

 

[ANAZAZI]

So are you saying you should keep those cows that aren't raising replacement quality calves, sell the heifer calves and hope to buy enough bull power to make up for poorer cows with the money saved from not develpoing heifers?

Are you saying that the cows are no good because they are not spawning heifers worthy to stay?

Think of it this way: the cows are so good that the do not need to be replaced, hence the extra heifers. Then it is perfectly legitimate to sell excess heifers be it for breeding purposes or as feeders.

 

[Ned Jr.]

OK now I understand. I said I'd sell the whole herd and start over. That would be extreme and I couldn't afford to do that either. It was really just an exaggeration but with a herd that only had 15 - 20% worthy of replacement I'd have to question the real quality of that top 15 -20%. I wouldn't want to buy anything from a herd that 85% needed to go to the sale barn. I prefer herds with a high top end and a lot of consistently throughout.

 

[Ned Jr.]

Think of it this way: the cows are so good that the do not need to be replaced, hence the extra heifers. Then it is perfectly legitimate to sell excess heifers be it for breeding purposes or as feeders.

I totally agree. If a cow is so good she doesn't need replaced don't replace her. But if her calf isn't replacement quality for anyone and needs to be sold as a feeder maybe the cow needs to go to the sale barn with her.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

What would be the normal cull rate in a well developed herd?

i think that where the confusion comes in,, i think the standerd is 20% of your herd size and replacements... looks like 30% which is what i hope to retain this year http://animalscience.tamu.edu/images/pd ... eifers.pdf

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Thanks for the link.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

"When cattle prices are high, producers begin
to rebuild their herds by retaining "high value"
heifers or by purchasing replacements. The
thinking is that with high cattle prices, it is time
to get into beef production or to increase current
cow inventories. After the rebuilding phase
occurs, supplies increase and prices drop. This
is the beginning of the herd liquidation phase of
the cattle cycle."

I find this quote from the publication very interesting.We're not in a normal cycle I don't believe due to the drought conditions therefore for those who can a build up in their herd should be a less risky proposition than in normal times.

My :2cents:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

the fly by nighters are the ones that tend to bail out when the prices are bad,, and buy back when their strong.. the replacement heifer/ cows,, are gonna be highly sought after ..the bulls will be taking a back seat to them for awhile, no better time than now to step up to a top quality bull.. when they pay for themselves in cash crops and resale

 

[KNERSIE]

To get back to the original thread....

I feel that you have more than enough to work with (judged by the few pics shown), all you need is the right bull. As a matter of fact I'd go as far as saying as long as your cows are fertile enough to calve every 12 months, have enough milk to raise a decent calf and are problem free in your environment, you'd be money ahead to keep them and rather invest in a good bull from a reputable breeder. By that I don't mean go and spend $ 5000+ on a bull to use on commercial cows either, but be prepared to pay $2500-$3000 for a young bull. Most people would be surprised to see just how much difference the right bull can make.

On the % calves that can be sold as/kept back as replacements in registered herds, its a matter of setting a set standard for the calves to meet in order to be considered as breeders. Some years it can be 80%, other years 0%, but saying that only 15% should make the cut isn't making any sense at all and would put most seedstock guys out of business.

 

[Ned Jr.]

I apologize to the poster of this tread if I'm off the topic.

Back on the % retained subject. Just one more thing to consider. How do you know which ones are the bottom heifers without calving them out? I consider myself a fairly good judge of what ones will work for me in my area but I often find some of the heifers I would have sold end up making some of my top cows.

I may spend to much trying to improve my herd but I bet I've seen more breeders go broke being to conservative than from spending to much.

 

[ANAZAZI]

I apologize to the poster of this tread if I'm off the topic.

Back on the % retained subject. Just one more thing to consider. How do you know which ones are the bottom heifers without calving them out? I consider myself a fairly good judge of what ones will work for me in my area but I often find some of the heifers I would have sold end up making some of my top cows.

I may spend to much trying to improve my herd but I bet I've seen more breeders go broke being to conservative than from spending to much.

We try them; if they fail the standards set by their contemporarys, they are culled. No need for guesswork. And some of the culls from a great breeder will do as replacements for a good breeder.

 

[cow pollinater]

Even though they are all from Registered stock some employee along the way dropped the ball and unfortunately now they are not..

I hate to break it to you but that was an expensive mistake. A calving ease registered Hereford bull without to much white will fetch a pretty penny here in CA (I'm in Exeter, I deal with Visalia Livestock Market, the same owners of Templeton) but anything else that's red with a white face sells by the pound and a pretty steep discount. There is still a market for baldie making genetics but not for original hereford cattle as commercials. I watched late fall calving hereford cows sell for beef prices this past Wednesday at Visalia when everything else bred the same way sold for thirteen hundred plus.
I really do appriciate that you've stuck with your heritage stock but if you're looking for profitability in our market here in CA, breed them back angus(or even red angus) and get the extra money. I wouldn't say that if the registries were up to date.

 

[Keren]

Here at least it is possible though not easy to track back the registration details and start back in the registered game with a herd whose papers have been allowed to lapse. Find your old cows who still have tattoos in their ears and go from there. I like your two calves. If you are interested in producing registered stock, trace the pedigrees and spend two or three grand on a good registered bull and you will have a good start. Fwiw regarding keeping heifers, if your breeding program is effective your young stock should be the best you have genetically speaking so a progressive herd is a young herd. I would also suggest if an excellent cow cannot produce something equal to or better than herself she is not excellent in my eyes.