Hereford breeding opinions

[dun]

the concept is to not get red baldies by using the black hereford on the angus cows. because red baldies bring less money.

If you're using angus cows you'll get black, except in the rare cases of a red carrier black Angus. Maybe we're just lucky but our red baldys bring as much as black baldies or solid blacks. But our solid reds do too.

dun

 

[la4angus]

Herefords are RED we don't need anymore counterfiet cattle, if you want Black run Angus or Brangus dang fine cattle. Quit trying to copy the Angus people like the Black Limms and Simms etc.

Thanks Camp
Like certherfbeef said, I couldn't have said it better myself.

To many people think that they can cross 2 or 3 of breeds for 3 to 5 generations that they have developed a new breed.

 

[Campground Cattle]

the concept is to not get red baldies by using the black hereford on the angus cows. because red baldies bring less money.

Horsefeathers its about quality as my black badies and Herefords bring the same at the salebarn , and this year the Herefords have brought more.

Its about Quality not Color

 

[Brad B]

Not trying to start an arguement, but I think some of that may be regional. Red calves don't bring as much around here (AL) at the stockyard as black ones. Been there, seen it, time after time.

 

[Texan]

I was just wondering has a registered Black Hereford steer ever won one of the major shows and if one hasn't how can you consider it to have any real value for real cattlemen?

 

[Jake]

well Texan haven't we talk about before how just cuzz they have show quality doesn't mean they have any purpose for real cattlemen and if they work for real cattleman doesn't mean they'll work for show.... why do you think you never hear of people that are doing well breeding their animals to club calf sires?

 

[Campground Cattle]

Not trying to start an arguement, but I think some of that may be regional. Red calves don't bring as much around here (AL) at the stockyard as black ones. Been there, seen it, time after time.

Yeah the buyers over here used to pay more for Black counterfiets, as these Ranchers put a Black bull on anything that could moo. Bottom fell on those low quality and yield calves. Now its quality as it should be best calf brings the best money, if the ranchers in your area put up with less at the local salebarn its your fault. We shutdown one around here that didn't want to pay for the quality boycotted him, others got the message.
We have a salebarn open every day but Sunday

 

[Brad B]

I just take em good quality black ones, and starting this year, some black baldys. So far, so good.

 

[Jake]

you have to have a bigger set of colored cattle to match up to the prices of the same quality black stuff. Black stuff of a little lesser quality will bring the the same as the colored of the higher quality.

 

[Texan]

......why do you think you never hear of people that are doing well breeding their animals to club calf sires?

I guess I never hear about it because I don't hang out at enough showbarns, Jake. Maybe I need to change that, though. 'Cause I did learn today that most ranchers don't register their steers. Did you already know that, Jake? Bet you didn't........

 

[Jake]

......why do you think you never hear of people that are doing well breeding their animals to club calf sires?

I guess I never hear about it because I don't hang out at enough showbarns, Jake. Maybe I need to change that, though. 'Cause I did learn today that most ranchers don't register their steers. Did you already know that, Jake? Bet you didn't........

no I didn't!!!

 

[Campground Cattle]

the angus will ad the heterosis to the mix. the black hereford might get the right color but what about the heterosis?? i have been curious about the black hereford too.

Here's a link if you want to read more

http://www.blackhereford.com
Basically, there were two approaches Hoagland could have taken in developing Black Hereford cattle. The first would have been to take an F-1 cross and breed it to a registered Angus, then line breed those cattle keeping the 50:50 percentage. The second approach was to create a Hereford that is black. The second approach will produce the maximum heterosis benefits when that black Hereford is bred to another breed. More heterosis than from a hybrid breed, he says.

Yeah there out of leavenworth ks they courted us to come to their sale.If I want a terminal cross HerefordxAngus or Brangus I will breed it to take to the salebarn. If you want to buy a terminal cross and call it a breed, you can do it a lot cheaper, and if you want papers add a roll of toilet paper cause thats what there worth. There will never be a Black Hereford it doesn't exsist. This like is selling lures to fishermen might not catch fish but sure catch the fishermen. If Cattlemen want black go Angus cause thats what you have if it's black is Angus genetics

 

[certherfbeef]

why do you think you never hear of people that are doing well breeding their animals to club calf sires?

Jake, I know that comment wasn't directed to me but, I take offense to it anyhow. Now, you and I have talked enough for you to know that a comment like that was not necessary. The club calf thing for me is a regional flavor. Most of it is a terminal cross, BUT, we have several really well producing females out of "club calf" sires. Some are good and some are bad. I bet you have them like that in your commercial herd too. Not every female is replacement material, that also varies from herd to herd. A female I will keep, you probably would not look twice at. Same goes for Brad B. and Texan, prob two different types of cattle in all four herds. More than likely ALL sound, functional animals, but not the same lineage or type. Now, until you get out to see some of my simmental based clubby brood cows, please do not label me as one of those fly-by-night breeders that will fall off the map in 5 years.

 

[Jake]

ok we talked about it, but what I meant was the haired, maine, angus, or w/e else crosses that are special bred for a one or two generation show ring use that won't function well under a commercial setting.

 

[Hobby Hereford]

The link I posted has an article from the High Plains Journal which goes into some detail
It has taken nearly 10 years to develop a breed of Black Hereford cattle that will consistently hold the black color. "We have used the same methodology that has been used by other breeds," says Hoagland. The process starts by breeding a registered Hereford to a registered Angus to get an F-1 cross. This F-1 cross is then bred to a registered Hereford to get a three-quarter blood black-whiteface calf. That three-quarter blood cross is then bred to another F-1 cross to get a five-eights-blood calf. "A five-eights blood will hold the black color," says Hoagland.
"Our goal is to breed a homozygous Black Hereford animal," says Hoagland. "Once we have done that, all the calves out of that bull will be black.

I hope you all realize I am just trying to learn/absorb information about breeding to get a black baldy as we have always bred hereford to hereford or beefmaster, I value all your opinions as experienced cattlemen/woman and I see your point/s because it starts with Angus/Hereford and I'm looking into the Angus.
As to the papers/toilet paper remark ;-) I couldn't agree more and pretty is as pretty does.
Again thank you all for your input/opinions and knowledge, :shock: I think I am actually starting to absorb some breeding knowledge.

 

[jt]

http://www.blackhereford.com
The second approach was to create a Hereford that is black.

How would someone create a Hereford that was black from ancestors that for centurys have been Red/WhiteFace.

cross with black angus, and only breed back the black baldy calves until you have something like 31/32 hereford blood with the black hide.

read this somewhere, but cant remember where.

but being an angus man, i figure that was the answer you wanted to hear. ;-)

jt

Herefords are RED we don't need anymore counterfiet cattle, if you want Black run Angus or Brangus dang fine cattle. Quit trying to copy the Angus people like the Black Limms and Simms etc.

cc.. not trying to ruffle you up there, just answered the question. you say to run brangus, but bear in mind.. where did the black in brangus come from? is it ok to cross angus to brahma, and call it a breed, but not to hereford???

it makes no difference to me what people choose to do with their cattle.. i just answered the question.

jt

 

[Campground Cattle]

http://www.blackhereford.com
The second approach was to create a Hereford that is black.

How would someone create a Hereford that was black from ancestors that for centurys have been Red/WhiteFace.

cross with black angus, and only breed back the black baldy calves until you have something like 31/32 hereford blood with the black hide.

read this somewhere, but cant remember where.

but being an angus man, i figure that was the answer you wanted to hear. ;-)

jt

Herefords are RED we don't need anymore counterfiet cattle, if you want Black run Angus or Brangus dang fine cattle. Quit trying to copy the Angus people like the Black Limms and Simms etc.

cc.. not trying to ruffle you up there, just answered the question. you say to run brangus, but bear in mind.. where did the black in brangus come from? is it ok to cross angus to brahma, and call it a breed, but not to hereford???

it makes no difference to me what people choose to do with their cattle.. i just answered the question.

jt

Whole different ballgame JT you are not improving the Herefords or Angus both British breeds. The Brangus was started to improve on some great qualities of the Brahmann heat,tick tolerance,materinal ability, etc, the Angus brought yield and grade = improvement. To breed to turn hair color black because you don't have the quality or management ability to compete with the Angus people is B.S. We do not need Angus genetics in every breed, it wont be long and the beef industry will be as screwed up as the Diary Cattle as there gene pool is getting very shallow. I prefer to swim in pure clean water not wade in septic tank.

 

[la4angus]

[To breed to turn hair color black because you don't have the quality or management ability to compete with the Angus people is B.S. We do not need Angus genetics in every breed, it wont be long and the beef industry will be as screwed up as the Diary Cattle as there gene pool is getting very shallow. I prefer to swim in pure clean water not wade in septic tank.

Campground
This couldn't have been stated any better or more clearly. Pure truth in your statements.
I have to agree with you 100%

 

[jt]

http://www.blackhereford.com
The second approach was to create a Hereford that is black.

How would someone create a Hereford that was black from ancestors that for centurys have been Red/WhiteFace.

cross with black angus, and only breed back the black baldy calves until you have something like 31/32 hereford blood with the black hide.

read this somewhere, but cant remember where.

but being an angus man, i figure that was the answer you wanted to hear. ;-)

jt

Herefords are RED we don't need anymore counterfiet cattle, if you want Black run Angus or Brangus dang fine cattle. Quit trying to copy the Angus people like the Black Limms and Simms etc.

cc.. not trying to ruffle you up there, just answered the question. you say to run brangus, but bear in mind.. where did the black in brangus come from? is it ok to cross angus to brahma, and call it a breed, but not to hereford???

it makes no difference to me what people choose to do with their cattle.. i just answered the question.

jt

Whole different ballgame JT you are not improving the Herefords or Angus both British breeds. The Brangus was started to improve on some great qualities of the Brahmann heat,tick tolerance,materinal ability, etc, the Angus brought yield and grade = improvement. To breed to turn hair color black because you don't have the quality or management ability to compete with the Angus people is B.S. We do not need Angus genetics in every breed, it wont be long and the beef industry will be as screwed up as the Diary Cattle as there gene pool is getting very shallow. I prefer to swim in pure clean water not wade in septic tank.

i see your point., and i think it is a valid one.

jt

 

[Ryder]

I have to agree with the opinion of campground and others about the black hereford. This is not a Hereford that is black. It is a composite. The Brangus and Braford are examples of composites which, by their names, denote the parent breeds from which they were formed. If the black herefords had followed their lead, they could have possibly been called 'hergus or angford'. This would have seemed more honest to me.
If I correctly understand how the black hereford was put together, it would have less heterosis than a true F1 black baldy.

The only way I can think of that a hereford colored black could come about is for a genetic mutation of the color genes to occur. As far as I know, this has never happened. Herefords are red.

It seems to me that this color thing has gone beyond ridiculus. I wonder if a can of spray paint wouldn't be a lot easier.