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Hereford breeding opinions

Hobby Hereford

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I'd like to hear your ideas/opinions, etc on what to breed
our Polled Herefords to to get a black baldy, I know the general
idea is Angus but what other options are out there. I'm
almost afraid to tell you we have Black Hereford Semen,
don't want to start a war ;-) But were open to suggestions
and opinions. Love the Herefords but the x's seem to do
better at the auctions in this area and the youngin has taken
to showing Angus for 4H.
 

Frankie

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Hobby Hereford":po0yiyb2 said:
I'd like to hear your ideas/opinions, etc on what to breed
our Polled Herefords to to get a black baldy, I know the general
idea is Angus but what other options are out there. I'm
almost afraid to tell you we have Black Hereford Semen,
don't want to start a war ;-) But were open to suggestions
and opinions. Love the Herefords but the x's seem to do
better at the auctions in this area and the youngin has taken
to showing Angus for 4H.

Many breeds today have a black line of cattle, Simmentals, Limis, Salers, Beefmaster.... But the bottom line is Angus. Why did those breeds add Angus to their bloodlines? Because Angus cattle work. And they work very, very well on Herefords. The true black baldy is a Hereford/Angus cross. Don't discount Angus on your Herefords. Good luck...
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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I might try a black Simmental or Limo bull. If you can find a quiet Limo that is. My Hereford-Angus cross calves that I had a couple of years ago were pretty nice looking calves although the replacements I kept off that cross are a bit disappointing. Look good but aren't raising very good calves compared to what I think they should be.
 

hillbilly

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Stick with Angus, with no red gene.
You can get about anything you want in a Angus bull.
And yes, there is good reason why its the #1 cross in the mid-west.

Hillbilly
 

Hobby Hereford

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hillbilly":2rmmvfw6 said:
Stick with Angus, with no red gene.
You can get about anything you want in a Angus bull.
And yes, there is good reason why its the #1 cross in the mid-west.

Hillbilly

Bear with me, how do I know if he has any red genes?
:oops:
 

dun

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Hobby Hereford":h5txdju8 said:
hillbilly":h5txdju8 said:
Stick with Angus, with no red gene.
You can get about anything you want in a Angus bull.
And yes, there is good reason why its the #1 cross in the mid-west.

Hillbilly

Bear with me, how do I know if he has any red genes?
:oops:

Regitration papers will show him as a red carrier

dun
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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I had a Simm-Angus bull for my last herdsire. He had a recessive red gene. Nice calves but very inconsistent in color, markings and growth rate.
 

hillbilly

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A Black bull with a red gene will produce 25% red calves on hereford cows.....I think.

Hillbilly
 

txag

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hillbilly":1l0z8een said:
A Black bull with a red gene will produce 25% red calves on hereford cows.....I think.

Hillbilly

close, but it would be 50% red calves. half the time he should throw the red gene & the other half of the time he should throw the black.
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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I would say more like 50%

Bb Where B = Black and b = red (Black angus with red gene)
Hereford would be bb

Bb x bb= 50% Bb + 50% bb

All White face though.
 

txag

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dun":19j539l7 said:
Hobby Hereford":19j539l7 said:
hillbilly":19j539l7 said:
Stick with Angus, with no red gene.
You can get about anything you want in a Angus bull.
And yes, there is good reason why its the #1 cross in the mid-west.

Hillbilly

Bear with me, how do I know if he has any red genes?
:oops:

Regitration papers will show him as a red carrier

dun

just curious how the association can tell. if it's out of two red carrier parents, there's a 33% chance it's not a carrier (if it's black we can throw out the 25% chance of it being red so that leaves 66% chance of being heterozygous black & 33% chance of being homozygous). how does the association know whether it's a carrier or not?
 

txshowmom

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You are both wrong in a way. Just because an animal has a certian gene dosen't mean that gene will every appear phynotypically. He has a "50/50 chance" of throwing black or red but you can't say that 1/2 or 1/4 or whatever percent of his calves will be a certian color. We have a bull that is a red gene carrier and he has yet to throw a red calf on our place. He has sired only about 30 calves but they have all been black ......so far.
 

txag

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txshowmom":1hezdsx5 said:
You are both wrong in a way. Just because an animal has a certian gene dosen't mean that gene will every appear phynotypically. He has a "50/50 chance" of throwing black or red but you can't say that 1/2 or 1/4 or whatever percent of his calves will be a certian color. We have a bull that is a red gene carrier and he has yet to throw a red calf on our place. He has sired only about 30 calves but they have all been black ......so far.

so how do you know he's a carrier?

also, if bred to homozygous black cows, it doesn't matter if he has the red gene, all he'll throw is black calves.

again, if a heterozygous black bull is bred to red cows, 50% of his calves should be red.

i guess i should have just come to you showmom instead of sitting through my genetics classes.
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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just curious how the association can tell. if it's out of two red carrier parents, there's a 33% chance it's not a carrier (if it's black we can throw out the 25% chance of it being red so that leaves 66% chance of being heterozygous black & 33% chance of being homozygous). how does the association know whether it's a carrier or not?

Hate to correct you but.

Two red carriers Bb

Bb x Bb= 25% BB + 50% Bb + 25% bb

One red carrier

BB x Bb = 50% BB + 50% Bb

I imagine the only way they would know for sure would be to cross
BB x bb= 100% Bb (or black with red recessive)
 

dun

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txshowmom":1nstosqx said:
You are both wrong in a way. Just because an animal has a certian gene dosen't mean that gene will every appear phynotypically. He has a "50/50 chance" of throwing black or red but you can't say that 1/2 or 1/4 or whatever percent of his calves will be a certian color. We have a bull that is a red gene carrier and he has yet to throw a red calf on our place. He has sired only about 30 calves but they have all been black ......so far.

The whole deal of which gene gets passed and the frequency is statistical. Just like half of the calves will be heifers. Over the years with a wide enough number of breedings the numbers will probably work out to the statistical average.

dun
 

txag

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Cattle Rack Rancher":3i5ar6ol said:
Hate to correct you but.

Two red carriers Bb

Bb x Bb= 25% BB + 50% Bb + 25% bb

One red carrier

BB x Bb = 50% BB + 50% Bb

I imagine the only way they would know for sure would be to cross
BB x bb= 100% Bb (or black with red recessive)

CRR,

you're right. if you'll re-read my post you'll see that i said that if the calf is black, then you know it's not the 25%bb. therefore, you know it's black & the odds of it carrying the red gene are 33%.
 

txag

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Cattle Rack Rancher":7w7o2bq0 said:
txag:
I apologize, I obviously didn't read that right.

CRR

no problem. i just re-read my own post & it wasn't as clear as i intended it to be.
 

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