Hereford AI Sires

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Larzbarz

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I'm currently trying to decide on an AI sire for the handful of Herefords on the ranch. Selection is limited to Select Sires/Accelerated Genetics, because our local rep is the one that will be doing the AI'ing. I've mostly narrowed it down to Cuda, Small Town Kid, and Historic. I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts or experiences with any of these sires that they would be willing to share. I included links to their respective pages below.

The goal of these matings would be to produce some Hereford bulls to use on the commercial herd that is largely Angus based. Heifers would be kept as well, if suitable for replacements. A fairly well-rounded animal is what we're shooting for, with some extra value on calving ease because the commercial herd range calves with minimal supervision/management.


https://selectsiresbeef.com/bull/hereford/behm-100w-cuda-504c/

https://www.accelgen.com/catalog/beef-catalog.aspx?code=014HP01037&language=english&title=search

https://selectsiresbeef.com/bull/hereford/njw-160b-028x-historic-81e-et/
 
I have heard good things about the Historic calves coming out. They seem to be a little larger framed and thicker than the Cudas. I personally like Historic the best of the 3 as he seems to be the best "Beef bull" of the three. Small town Kid is the calving ease of the three you listed. Cuda and Small Town Kid are the most "proven" so far, but I like Historic to possibly end up being the best selection for what you want to do. From what I have seen I would be most likely to keep a bull from him than the other two.
 
We have used Small Town Kid the past 2 years and got our first set of calves out of Cuda this year and you can't go wrong with either of them when it comes to calving ease along with desirable growth traits. We got some really nice calves last year out of Small Town that had a lot of bone, muscle, and a little extra hip to them and really grew out well. Sold 2 yearling bulls sired by him to a couple commercial herds and would have loved to have kept either of them as a herd bull ourselves if we needed one right now. Will know more about the Cuda bull once we see how these calves we have grow out but judging by how well is progeny is selling on production sales this year doubt we will be disappointed. Don't know much about Historic but the 028X bull he is sired by has been really good.
 
I appreciate the input. We used Cuda last year and got 4 heifer calves out of him. I'm thinking that we'll probably use him again this year, then the next couple years we'll have a nice group of Cuda daughters to breed to something else. In addition to the 3 Herefords below we will have 2 more commercial Herefords and 2 registered Herefords to breed that have been acquired this spring

Here are some pics of our Cuda heifers.

2nd calf commercial Hereford



2nd calf commercial Hereford




2nd calf commercial Hereford




3rd calf commercial Angus-influence cow

 
I've had great luck with Cuda and Small Town Kid, with the nod towards the Small Town Kid progeny. May keep my first born Hereford bull calf as a herd sire for running on my commercial angus cows, he's super solid and outpacing the rest of the herd. One of my current herd sires is a Redeem bull out of the same cow, he's been great. His younger half brother seems to be following in his footsteps. I have been sticking with Cuda on my Hometown 10Y sired cows, but wouldn't have a problem running him on the others as well. I'll try to figure out the picture posting instructions and put some up.

Flynengr
 


The borrowed cow in the photo belongs to my friend and she is on my ranch feeding one of my twins. She is a CRR About Time 743 daughter. We bred her to Cuda a few days ago. I am an Angus breeder, but Buttons, as we call her, has rekindled an interest in the Hereford breed. I am not ready to switch breeds since my friend seems to have a lot more calving issues and finds it more difficult to get a decent price when she sells. I loved Herefords when I was a kid and it is fun getting to know a bit more about the breed today. Initially I had thought about getting into Herefords when we bought the Oregon ranch 30 years ago, but a neighboring rancher suggested there were financial advantages to going Angus, and I have never regretted that advice.

I should add that Buttons did not lose her calf from a calving issue, but her calf was accidentally grafted to the wrong cow when he was found alone in the pasture shortly after a hired hand rotated the cows into a new pasture. The foster mother had a still born calf a few days later and the mistake was realized. By then it seemed easier to leave the calf with the foster mother and we decided to bring Buttons here to foster my little Angus twin.
 
Larzbarz said:
Welcome to the boards! You won't be able to post pictures until you have made 5 comments/posts. Thanks for the input.

Thank you. I've been a lurker for years, and figured I'd make a comment since I have used 2 of the 3 bulls in the past. I'll try to add to the discussion where I can so I can post pictures. The Historic bull I don't have any experience with has a number of appealing qualities, for sure. I held off from using him this year due to the accuracy of his EPD's at the time I placed my semen order with my Select rep. I'm glad to read that others on the board have had eyes on his progeny and they are performing as anticipated. I've not had great luck with being an "early customer" on the Angus side.

My only hesitation for retaining the Small Town Kid progeny as a herd sire is the huge slide in SC EPD. In Nov 2018 he was 1.5, AHA indicates currently he is at 0.9. If I'm honest with myself my bull calf isn't as well equipped as I'd like to see at 3 months of age. Otherwise I think he's quite the specimen.
 
I'm pretty new here myself.

Accuracy is one of the bigger reasons that I probably won't use Historic this year, but I look forward to seeing how his numbers look in the next couple years.

I had noticed the SC regression on Small Town Kid, too. Actually noticed several numbers on him and Cuda that had moved some in the last year. But they still look to be the cream of the crop in the Select catalog for what we're trying to accomplish.
 
The small town kid calves I've seen look good. This year I decided to use Long Haul from ABS.

Keep in mind I just have a couple hereford cows so it's an experiment. I have to keep a couple Herefords to keep my wife and daughter happy.

https://bullsearch.absglobal.com/en-us/beef/bull/detail/2466789/breed/17/proof/6/country/222
 
He looks good and so do his numbers, but I'm limited to Select Sires for my options. His accuracy is about the same as Historic's, so again, it will be interesting to see what they look like going forward.
 
Flynengr said:
Larzbarz said:
Welcome to the boards! You won't be able to post pictures until you have made 5 comments/posts. Thanks for the input.

Thank you. I've been a lurker for years, and figured I'd make a comment since I have used 2 of the 3 bulls in the past. I'll try to add to the discussion where I can so I can post pictures. The Historic bull I don't have any experience with has a number of appealing qualities, for sure. I held off from using him this year due to the accuracy of his EPD's at the time I placed my semen order with my Select rep. I'm glad to read that others on the board have had eyes on his progeny and they are performing as anticipated. I've not had great luck with being an "early customer" on the Angus side.

My only hesitation for retaining the Small Town Kid progeny as a herd sire is the huge slide in SC EPD. In Nov 2018 he was 1.5, AHA indicates currently he is at 0.9. If I'm honest with myself my bull calf isn't as well equipped as I'd like to see at 3 months of age. Otherwise I think he's quite the specimen.

For what it is worth our 2 Small Town Kid yearling bulls had adjusted yearling SC measurements of 37.4 and 34 (we had them measured a little over year old so actual was 38 and 35. I really wish we had at least 1 bull sired by Cuda this year to compare with but we got all heifers by him and 2 bulls by Small Town this year. I really like the looks of the Cuda heifers so far though. I have a few pictures on my phone of calves by both sires that I need to download and share at some point. I honestly think that both bulls have a lot of good traits to offer and you can't go wrong with either. I think the Small Town Kid calves probably have a little more bone and muscle from what I have seen in our calves but the Cuda calves are very well made as well. We had one of the owners of the Cuda bull visit the farm last fall who wanted to check out 1 of the 2 bulls below and when discussing Cuda he mentioned the females they've kept from him are turning into some really good cows.

Here's the 2 Small Town Kid bulls we sold this spring, pictures are from late December so they aren't even a year old yet in those pictures. We do ultrasound scans on all our yearling bulls and their adjusted 365 day ribeye came out to 14.19 and 14.64 which was a little surprising the 2nd bull had a slightly bigger ribeye because just looking at them the 1st bull is noticeably more thick and muscular through his top and weighed more. Personally I would have loved to kept either to use ourselves but we have a small herd and a good herd bull already. Both are going to commercial breeders to use on black cows so they should get some good use out of them.

2g.jpg


6g.jpg
 
kentuckyguy said:
The small town kid calves I've seen look good. This year I decided to use Long Haul from ABS.

Keep in mind I just have a couple hereford cows so it's an experiment. I have to keep a couple Herefords to keep my wife and daughter happy.

https://bullsearch.absglobal.com/en-us/beef/bull/detail/2466789/breed/17/proof/6/country/222

That is the first I have heard of this bull as I don't follow ABS sires too closely but his pedigree is really interesting. The scurs would be a no go for me but I will tell you the Logic bull on his dam side our oldest cow in the herd is sired by him and I wish we had more cows like her. She has earned her keep here, she will either come up open or die before she leaves.
 
Larzbarz said:
I'm pretty new here myself.

Accuracy is one of the bigger reasons that I probably won't use Historic this year, but I look forward to seeing how his numbers look in the next couple years.

I had noticed the SC regression on Small Town Kid, too. Actually noticed several numbers on him and Cuda that had moved some in the last year. But they still look to be the cream of the crop in the Select catalog for what we're trying to accomplish.

The more progeny data that gets reported to AHA on bulls the more their accuracy and EPDs will get affected. The one thing I will say though that over the years that trust your eyes and real life data over EPDs sometimes. We do use EPDS as part of our selection process but I will tell you if you use them as the main criteria in your decision making you will probably wind up disappointed at times because not every bull lives up to their numbers. We've used some bulls over the years that while their numbers looked great the results we got were not. Do your research, talk to people that have actually used the bull and have results to share. I have a hard time trying an AI bull that doesn't at least have some daughters that have calved because I want to know what kind of cow a bull sires before I commit to using him.
 
SPH said:
The more progeny data that gets reported to AHA on bulls the more their accuracy and EPDs will get affected.

Exactly, this is definitional. Which is why our farm protocol is to only use high accuracy bulls, because that is our best chance to get what we're wanting/expecting.

SPH said:
Do your research, talk to people that have actually used the bull and have results to share.

This was literally the original point of this thread.
 
For what it is worth our 2 Small Town Kid yearling bulls had adjusted yearling SC measurements of 37.4 and 34 (we had them measured a little over year old so actual was 38 and 35.
Actual & adjusted SC measurements of 38/37.4 is exceptional, the other very respectable. FWIW I measure potential bull calves when I take 205 Wts at 6-7 months/200 days. My minimum is 20.67 and prefer 23.0 cm or more. Providing its done correctly/consistently I've found its a reliable potential gauge of a yearling measurement that exceeds the minimum 32 cm.
 
76 Bar said:
For what it is worth our 2 Small Town Kid yearling bulls had adjusted yearling SC measurements of 37.4 and 34 (we had them measured a little over year old so actual was 38 and 35.
Actual & adjusted SC measurements of 38/37.4 is exceptional, the other very respectable. FWIW I measure potential bull calves when I take 205 Wts at 6-7 months/200 days. My minimum is 20.67 and prefer 23.0 cm or more. Providing its done correctly/consistently I've found its a reliable potential gauge of a yearling measurement that exceeds the minimum 32 cm.

We are a very data and results driven herd but measuring scrotal at weaning is 1 thing we never have done. We get all kinds of data at yearling on our sale bulls that if something isn't right like a bull couldn't pass a BSE we'll fatten him up and send him off to slaughter. We usually have a good idea what bulls are going to make the yearling pen and which ones will get steered just by what we know of them at weaning. We may have a bull or 2 we will make a decision on a few weeks after weaning but usually the cream of the crop rises to the top when you get their weaning weight and evaluate them visually. There have been times when we may have a bull that weans good but we don't like something about him like for instance his scrotal looks small or we don't like something about how he is made phenotypically and that is where some guys struggle is not knowing when to take the knife to a bull when he doesn't meet the standards you would have if you were buying a bull. If you don't think enough of a bull that you wouldn't use him in your own herd then why are you trying to sell him to someone else?

That's 1 thing that drives me nuts are are guys that keep too many bulls intact that some should have gone to the feedlot as steers then saturate the market with cheap bulls that most guys would turn into hamburger if they were their own. Saw a comment on a FB page the other week by a breeder whose family has been in the cattle business for over 100 years that said if you aren't selling your registered purebred bulls for a minimum of $2500 these days then you probably aren't making money on them with all the costs you have invested. Also anyone buying a cheap bull should be asking what kind of guarantees are they getting because if you wind up with a bunch of open cows or the bull falls apart is that breeder going to refund you or replace the bull? A reputable breeder will not hesitate to satisfy a customer as his reputation is worth more than the cost it would take to keep a customer satisfied. We have been on both ends of that problem over the years and I will tell you when you do the right thing it usually keeps the relationship on good terms that you will probably do business with them again.
 
Excellent points SPH.
If you don't think enough of a bull that you wouldn't use him in your own herd then why are you trying to sell him to someone else?
That's been my philosophy as well.
A reputable breeder will not hesitate to satisfy a customer as his reputation is worth more than the cost it would take to keep a customer satisfied.
Amen to that. Icing on the cake is getting positive feed back on replacement females. 8)
 
Alright, finally got around to downloading some photos of some of our AI calves this year...

Cuda heifer out of a Revolution 4R dam, pair is the 2nd picture.

90h.jpg


42a.jpg


Cuda heifer out of a daugther of the cow above

91h.jpg


The 2 heifers together

heifers2.jpg


Cuda heifer out of a 10 year old Logic daughter (on the left, I think one of the other 2 heifers is the 1 on the right)

94H.jpg


Small Town Kid bull out of a Revolution 4R grandaughter. I wish I could have got a better picture of him but all the others I have he is just standing weird or on the move. He really stands out right now as he is really thick and wide in the butt

89H.jpg


We used up all our remaining straws of Cuda and Small Town Kid this breeding season so will be evaluating what we buy for next breeding season but right now unless something else catches our eye before next spring we'll probably use 1 or both of those bulls again. One bull that I think we would consider using if it wasn't for the Revolution and On Target genetics on his dam side that we already have a lot of is the Homeward C776 bull: http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=3E3F292A&2=2420&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5A5D5B222125202F2F&9=5F5D5D5F That's the one thing we really like about Cuda and Small Town Kid is they really seem to pair well as an outcross to our cow herd genetics. I am frequently researching bulls and every time I come across one that catches my eye I am not surprised to find Revolution 4R somewhere in the pedigree. That bull really made a big impact in the Hereford breed and the daughters he has sired have been leaving their mark as well.
 

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