Here we go again

[Ky hills]

To enter a federal building, everyone, including all federal employees have to go through a metal detector. Same with the court systems.

But a 17 year old can put on a trench coat and carry a shotgun into a high school and shoot the place up.

Seems simple - operate schools with the same screening that the federal workplace enjoys.

That's fine and dandy it doesn't address the problem just target the bus then.
Our society morality has failed along our criminal justice system IMO.

I see both points. Our county court building that houses court proceedings has a metal detector that you have to walk through to get in. I think that would at the very least appropriate to have in place at schools too, although it is a very sad societal failure that we are having to have this conversation.
It would be costly but perhaps have security on the buses as well.

 

[Bright Raven]

To enter a federal building, everyone, including all federal employees have to go through a metal detector. Same with the court systems.

But a 17 year old can put on a trench coat and carry a shotgun into a high school and shoot the place up.

Seems simple - operate schools with the same screening that the federal workplace enjoys.

That's fine and dandy it doesn't address the problem just target the bus then.
Our society morality has failed along our criminal justice system IMO.

I see both points. Our county court building that houses court proceedings has a metal detector that you have to walk through to get in. I think that would at the very least appropriate to have in place at schools too, although it is a very sad societal failure that we are having to have this conversation.
It would be costly but perhaps have security on the buses as well.

I am not ready to concede that we have reached "societal failure". These shootings are EXTREME acts by an extreme minority in the general population. If you watch the news, what strikes me are all the good parents and kids that I see. The perpetrators are "outliers". Kids on the extreme fringe of the bell curve.

If we assume that this is a failure of the US society. Then why is the US society failing and not other cultures around the world. This happens much more frequently here than in any other country.

 

[Ryder]

To enter a federal building, everyone, including all federal employees have to go through a metal detector. Same with the court systems.

But a 17 year old can put on a trench coat and carry a shotgun into a high school and shoot the place up.

Seems simple - operate schools with the same screening that the federal workplace enjoys.

That's fine and dandy it doesn't address the problem just target the bus then.
Our society morality has failed along our criminal justice system IMO.

Put them all in jail. That will fix the problem.
But wait. When I was in school about 200 years ago I thought I was in jail.

 

[bball]

If we assume that this is a failure of the US society. Then why is the US society failing and not other cultures around the world. This happens much more frequently here than in any other country.

^^^
This is perhaps the most important question. Is it the 'perfect' combination of an entitled society, some youth with no guidance, direction or purpose, 24 hr news cycle, incompetent/absentee gun owning parents, breakdown/dissolution of the family unit (disinterested parenting), and a society that tolerates this extreme behavior because, as a society, we have lost our moral compass?

Perhaps we are approaching this all wrong. We are quick to say kill them ,hang them, etc. Etc. And it doesn't matter because they don't want to live anyway...
So here is a controversial solution: a medieval approach.
All efforts are made to recover the perpetrators ALIVE. Then, the 24 hr news cycle is put to use effectively by broadcasting the slow, methodical torture; and eventual death of these disturbed individuals. Send a message: you will die, but you will suffer a great deal before the sweet release of death. Let it be known.

Barbaric I know. Half tongue and cheek. I'm aware of our nation's view on cruel and unusual punishment..but there are plenty of places on the planet where the words cruel and unusual have a more narrow definition. Criminals are not catered to, but truly punished. We, as a society, are far too sophisticated and enlightened to stomach such punishments, it's easier to watch our children die.

Yea, I'm irritated with all this mess.

 

[greybeard]

morons abound.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Sad part is it's only a matter of time before it's going to hit home. I remind myself that a few muslims have killed more Americans in this country than all the school shooters. Fact is there's people out there that are trying to cause harm and problems every day to our families.

 

[Bright Raven]

If we assume that this is a failure of the US society. Then why is the US society failing and not other cultures around the world. This happens much more frequently here than in any other country.

^^^
Yea, I'm irritated with all this mess.

And more irritated that nothing is being done to counteract the mess. Let's be rational, people are not going to change the behavior, mental state or psychology of would-be mass school shooters in a span of time that we are willing to wait. It is like saying: let's teach our cows not to get out rather than build good fences.

Let's put measures in place that prevent these acts of mass shooting on our school grounds. Security - Metal detectors - body searches, etc. Some schools in Kentucky now have that kind of security.

 

[Caustic Burno]

If we assume that this is a failure of the US society. Then why is the US society failing and not other cultures around the world. This happens much more frequently here than in any other country.

^^^
Yea, I'm irritated with all this mess.

And more irritated that nothing is being done to counteract the mess. Let's be rational, people are not going to change the behavior, mental state or psychology of would-be mass school shooters in a span of time that we are willing to wait. It is like saying: let's teach our cows not to get out rather than build good fences.

Let's put measures in place that prevent these acts of mass shooting on our school grounds. Security - Metal detectors - body searches, etc. Some schools in Kentucky now have that kind of security.

Forty years of your rational is what got us to where we are now.

 

[Bright Raven]

^^^
Yea, I'm irritated with all this mess.

And more irritated that nothing is being done to counteract the mess. Let's be rational, people are not going to change the behavior, mental state or psychology of would-be mass school shooters in a span of time that we are willing to wait. It is like saying: let's teach our cows not to get out rather than build good fences.

Let's put measures in place that prevent these acts of mass shooting on our school grounds. Security - Metal detectors - body searches, etc. Some schools in Kentucky now have that kind of security.

Forty years of your rational is what got us to where we are now.

Are you opposed to security measures such as metal detectors until society can change these would-be shooters by whatever you think would do that?

 

[ddd75]

for safety and security we will take your guns, your freedoms, and your money.

All while the people applaud it.

 

[bball]

And more irritated that nothing is being done to counteract the mess. Let's be rational, people are not going to change the behavior, mental state or psychology of would-be mass school shooters in a span of time that we are willing to wait. It is like saying: let's teach our cows not to get out rather than build good fences.

Exactly. I appreciate the fact you understand my frustration. (As indicated by my half-azzed, irrational, extreme "solution".) We have a problem that appears to have no clear, valid, applicable solutions that i can see(and apparently no one else can eiher; hence, the lack of action). I completely agree with you about not being able to change their mentality. I would add youre not going to fix the parenting issues in this country, remove guns from this society(not that i believe it would solve the problem, but some do), or correct any of the possible causes because their very nature would require significant infringements of personal liberties. Security v. Freedom. The age old conundrum.
My response was an emotional one out of complete frustration to a real problem with no clear solutions. I genuinely attempt to refrain from making emotional responses here; however, i am flawed, and "just a stupid man".

 

[Bright Raven]

And more irritated that nothing is being done to counteract the mess. Let's be rational, people are not going to change the behavior, mental state or psychology of would-be mass school shooters in a span of time that we are willing to wait. It is like saying: let's teach our cows not to get out rather than build good fences.

Exactly. I appreciate the fact you understand my frustration. (As indicated by my half-azzed, irrational, extreme "solution".) We have a problem that appears to have no clear, valid, applicable solutions that i can see(and apparently no one else can eiher; hence, the lack of action). I completely agree with you about not being able to change their mentality. I would add youre not going to fix the parenting issues in this country, remove guns from this society(not that i believe it would solve the problem, but some do), or correct any of the possible causes because their very nature would require significant infringements of personal liberties. Security v. Freedom. The age old conundrum.
My response was an emotional one out of complete frustration to a real problem with no clear solutions. I genuinely attempt to refrain from making emotional responses here; however, i am flawed, and "just a stupid man".

You are being too hard on yourself.

Now that we have the emotional part behind us and you agree - I completely agree with you about not being able to change their mentality. What is your opinion on security measures? Some schools in Kentucky since the western Kentucky shooting, have put in state of the art security practices.

 

[bball]

It clearly works in govt buildings, airports, banks, etc
I do understand the position that opposes those measures because someone interested in harming groups of children could attack a bus, or wait in the parking lot, etc.
I believe it would still be a step in the right direction, but is it realistic or possible to implement in each school in the country? That i am not so sure of.

 

[Bright Raven]

It clearly works in govt buildings, airports, banks, etc
I do understand the position that opposes those measures because someone interested in harming groups of children could attack a bus, or wait in the parking lot, etc.
I believe it would still be a step in the right direction, but is it realistic or possible to implement in each school in the country? That i am not so sure of.

I have been watching that discussion unfold on Lexington 18 News. Since the Western Kentucky shooting and the epidemic of school shootings, security in schools has been front and center here. Yes. It can be done to the extent that there are local school systems and tax payers who put the safety of children first.

 

[callmefence]

I haven't read through. I don't think its that complicated.if you know someone is coming to your house to shoot you.?...you lock the gate, the door and keep a gun handy. every single room needs to have a secured gun it. and teachers need to be trained to use it. and paid for the extra duty. any teacher that objects to protecting their students can hit the road. I come from a family of teachers and principals. part of the job is your supposed to protect your students. the ONLY way these nuts will be stoped , is by killing them.

 

[bball]

You are being too hard on yourself.

Naw, i have no problem owning my behavior. Interestingly enough, the quoted i'm just a stupid man, is a line from a movie about Christ and the Apostles. The actor portraying Peter says the line in response to being selected to be Christ's rock. He says the line with such conviction that it has always stuck with me. Reminds me that no matter what we may think of ourselves, at the end, we are all just "stupid men."

 

[greybeard]

We, as society failed this young man. He was so hurt. His heart was so broken. He was hurt and teased. He needed more nurturing and more support. Just a little more love and training, that's all he needed, and a few more participation trophies.
Sociologists have done a superb job getting us where we are today, and we should not only allow them to continue unfettered but push them to take it to the next level. What has been removed and what replaced that was a wonderful tradeoff, and has worked better than anyone could have ever imagined. Please, continue.

(I for one, welcome our new sociology overlords, and am more than eager to give up a few essential liberties for a little more security.)

:bs:

 

[bball]

It clearly works in govt buildings, airports, banks, etc
I do understand the position that opposes those measures because someone interested in harming groups of children could attack a bus, or wait in the parking lot, etc.
I believe it would still be a step in the right direction, but is it realistic or possible to implement in each school in the country? That i am not so sure of.

Yes. It can be done to the extent that there are local school systems and tax payers who put the safety of children first.

Seems like a no brainer when worded like that....

 

[Caustic Burno]

Works great in the Prison no one every gets murder there.
Typical the government can fix a morality problem.

 

[Bright Raven]

It clearly works in govt buildings, airports, banks, etc
I do understand the position that opposes those measures because someone interested in harming groups of children could attack a bus, or wait in the parking lot, etc.
I believe it would still be a step in the right direction, but is it realistic or possible to implement in each school in the country? That i am not so sure of.

Yes. It can be done to the extent that there are local school systems and tax payers who put the safety of children first.

Seems like a no brainer when worded like that....

They had a special on 18 News covering the Montgomery County School system which is near KY Hills. The entire school property is a secure zone. It really does seem like a no brainer.