Herd sire breed decisions

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ANAZAZI":2en6nzts said:
Massey135":2en6nzts said:
ousoonerfan22":2en6nzts said:
I agree with Anazazi...... run hereford bulls on your black cows and angus bulls on your black baldie cows.
I thought he was looking for pounds!?

His choice must be agreeable to his elders.

Let's get very technical here.

The comment is "His choice must be agreeable to his elders." Inasmuch as his elders have given him the responsibility of making this year's choice of bull(s), I think that he should be very certain whether he is A- Responsible, B- Answerable, or C- Accountable for his decisions in this 'bull choice' matter. "Responsible" applies to one who has been delegated some duty, and is subject to penalty in case of default or unsatisfactory results. "Answerable" implies a legal or moral obligation for which one must answer to someone sitting in judgement. "Accountable" implies liability for which one may be called to account.

In my opinion, this young man must be comfortable in his own mind that the decision(s) he may make in this situation will not reverberate negatively and come back to 'visit' him in the future! He is the one who must determine the methods(s) for accomplishing this deed.

Several of the suggestions mentioned here could be acceptable IF the traits and characteristics of the chosen bull(s) are genetically compatible with the genetics of the cows in his herd. This is where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. The primary thought appearing to me through this thread is that the resulting progeny should be strongly Terminal with "Herd Replacement" genetics persevering in the female calves. If this is is the situation at hand, we are at the point of decision-making whereby two different goals must be satisfied; optimal feedlot candidates on the one hand, and highly desirable heifer replacement calves obtainable in the same matings. It is not a matter of "...which breed only to select for the bull choice(s)" but the EPD's and DNA markers of the selected bull(s) to enhance the cow herd in the future.

I suggest that a Black Gelbvieh bull meeting those stringent Genetic requirements with compelling Phenotype be selected to satisfy both goal requirements of the "decision maker" and the "elders" to preclude any future "I-told-you-so's" repercussions!

DOC HARRIS
 
If you plan to be in the cow business a long time then the primary goal should be not to screw up the cow herd by keeping terminal x females for breeding purposes, let your environment not the feed bunk determine the optimum size and type of female, pay attention to the sires that created those females and use that knowledge to select future cow makers. Already there is demand for breeding females, at a premium over steers rather than a discount, the steer side will take care of itself so focus on making functional, sound, docile, longlived maternal females that will increase demand for your surplus heifers.
 
Thanks for all the input, this board rocks. I agree with doc about the difficulties in selecting a breed/sire that can offer pounds in the feedlot and moderate maternal characteristics. In an operation like ours i feel like the best option may be to eventually have 1 maternal bull that offers a pool for replacements to be chosen from and the remaning 3-4 bulls to be terminal sires. I would love to go out and buy a hereford bull and start making some baldies out of the black angus cattle, but I can talk till im blue in the face about the calves having correct feet, good dispositions, early maturing due to scrotal size, and easy keeping cows benefiting reproductively from heterosis....in the end they will look in the feedlot and judge the bull based on those cattle.

SO. I think for this first time around I am looking at strictly terminal looking to maximize heterosis. We have bought replacements in the past and will likely coninue to, so keeping terminal females will not happen. I figure if I can get the approval on this first one in a year or two then I will be able to talk them into a hereford for maternal cross.

I am making them out to be big awful ranch owners but they really aren't. They are supportive and would go with whatever if i feel that strongly about it. Not to mention I don't know any reputable hereford breeders in my area, although I haven't done a ton of research.

I think I may go to an angus sale this weekend just to get an idea of what local bulls are going for. I am sure I will get guidelines before going to the auction, but I would like to have a ballpark idea of the price range. I'm not sure the SAV sale would have been in my budget or farm line-of-credit to cash the check for that matter. Yikes.
 
SPECIALIZE! Use a bull that is specialized in either growth or maternal characteristics; they are antagonistic by nature. In years you want replacements up a bull that meets your maternal years. When you looking for lbs, I want the least maternal animal I can find as his growth numbers should be premier.
 
I don't know how many cows you are running but if it is any amount you need to take into consideration your direction for 2 or three years in advance because the low number of cows that a yearling will cover is almost negligable. Takes at least two breeding seasons before a bull can have any impact on a calf crop so you need to evaluate both short term and long term herd goals. Maternal vs terminal selection needs to be planned in advance. You may only have 15-20 cows that need a terminal bull this year but if you are expecting to have 40-50 head down the road in this category that needs to be in purchasing plans.
 
I think that you should buy whatever bull you want for the baldy cows either terminal or even go angus back on them for replacements. Then you should ai those black cows to a good hereford bull so you can sharpen up those ai skills that you have learned and then have some top notch replacements to retain for the future. The people who are buying replacement heifers in the upcoming years are gonna have to shell out some pretty good amount of cash and raising them will be cheaper and have a lot of other benefits. Heck, if you live in the eastern part of the state, I would be willing to drop some semen off on a bull like 0709 very reasonably and then even be willing to buy the steers back and even the heifers if you don't want them. I will be making nearly weekly trips from northcentral SD to Sioux Falls for the next coming few months.

Brian

Brian
 
Thanks all for the responses, I attended a local Angus sale this weekend just to get a ballpark idea for price range of bulls this spring. I didn't even get a buyers number....and it's probably good because I might have left with one! The high was right around $6500-7000 and I think I could have brought one of the better yearlings in the sale home for 4,000-4,500. Then yeserday I watched another sale over the internet (sale was about an hour away so still in the same general area) and the top of the sale was $20,000 and they averaged $5,300. The bulls I was looking at or would have liked to have purchased were in the $6000 range. I'm just wondering what your guys/gals are seeing as far as average prices in your area. Obviously there is a huge fluctuation between sales (yes, I have read the SAV sale thread for 2012 :shock: ). I guess my point is that my dad and uncle seem to believe that I can land a decent bull for $3500 and I guess I'm not sure that is in the realm of possibility.
 
Its absolutely possible. There are many breeders out there breeding exclusively SAV genetics and they sell for reasonable amounts. The only difference is they won't carry the SAV prefix. This is true w/ any of these big names. WIth AI so accessable, youd be silly to pay that kind of money for a bull.

case in point: Rob Sneed held his shorthorn bull sale last year with the high selling bull being in the 4500 range. Sullivans buy a bred cow from Sneed and sell the resulting bull calf in their sale for over 10 grand...
 

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