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Herd Bull

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mncattle

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Well here is my herd bull. What do you guys think of him?

I bought him year and a half ago at about 800lbs.



 

KNERSIE

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If you tell us what you hope to achieve with him we can give you an opinion on whether he will meet your objectives.
 

tncattle

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In the first pic he appears to have an extra set of legs, not sure I would want to start herd with a 6 leg gene bull. :p
 

cowman30

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Is it just me or does he appear to be lacking in the rear and be I guess sickle hocked or cow hocked. I dont know how to say it but his back legs dont look right.
 

blackcowz

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Another "committee" bull. Looks like this one was put together with spare parts at that. Sorry. He is pretty masculine and certainly has some depth. Back legs don't look right to me either.
 

*Cowgirl*

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not a fan, sorry....he is fairly masculine though; mostly just lacks muscle, appropriate structure, and testicles (from these pictures)

you could try some different pictures though, as he appears to be standing oddly
 

S&S Farms

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Two questions. Where did you buy him at? Why did you buy him so young?

It looks like to me maybe he was not developed to his full potential as a yearling.

Jeff
 

DOC HARRIS

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Folks -

I hesitate to burst your bubbles, but this bull in NOT masculine. That is demonstrated by his lack of adequate neck crest, width of face and head, bone size and lack of thickness from the shoulders rearward. He has weak hindquarters and depth of round, he is cow hocked AND sickle hocked, lacks adequate bone size (which results from testosterone production in the Endocrine System by the Pituitary Gland) which should be more prevalent in this two year old bull. He is "open-shouldered", and displays a pinched heart girth, which will restrict his calves from performing in the feedlot as well as producing replacement heifers in the cow herd from a lack of capacity.

He also shows weak pasterns, which will shorten his breeding capability in future years.

"Cow hocked" means that his rear hocks 'angle' inward toward each other, which 'splays' his feet outward. This causes a strain on a bull's stifle joint when mounting cows.

"Sickle hocked" means that an animal's rear legs angle FORWARD from the hock, causing them to walk with difficulty by placing an undo amount of their weight of their hindquarters on their feet and hocks and hips. This will shorten their functional abilities sooner than would be desirable, considering PROFIT from that particular animal in reproduction considerations.

A more phenotypically desirable bull will make you more money, regardless of his pedigree.

Phenotype, Genotype and Functional Traits must be optimal in EVERY seedstock individual for PROFIT to be a factor in your BU$INE$$!

DOC HARRIS
 

alexfarms

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The bull looks like he is pretty thin, hopefully, that is just because you have let him run out on poor forages over the winter. If that is the case and you fed him a little better and put some weight on him and set him up right so that he is standing better when you took the picture a lot of these same folks who don't like him now on this board would luv him. He may be a good bull that just has been roughing it or he may be a poor doing bull depending on how he has been taken care of. Do you have any calves by him yet? That will be the real test.
 

mnmtranching

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What is he, like a coming 3 year old? Looks thin and not the best pics. But most of us aren't great at getting good shots on our cattle. It's true that some forum experts like a lot of fat on the bulls. Got some pics of his calves? I don't thinks hes all that bad. Like some one else said. " get a couple hundred more pounds on him and the experts will probably praise him. :nod:
 

DOC HARRIS

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200 or 500 additional pounds won't change his lack of musculinity, poor feet, cow-hockedness, or sickle-hockedness - only make them appear worse. Additional lbs, would make him appear burly shouldered, but still weak hindquarters. If he indicated deeper rounds it would only be fat in the hock area, and not real meaty musculature. He would manifest even MORE sloping pasterns, and his lack of bone size would be manifest. Funnel Butt is Funnel Butt! :nod:

He is what he is.

I am not trying to be argumentive here. mncattle asked what we thought of him. That is what I think of him. It seems to me that on most of these posts where a rancher inquires what the members of the Forum think of their cattle, most posters try to avoid making honest comments for fear of hurting the feelings of the owners. I am trying to point out reality. If the truth hurts, it is better than have their pocketbook hurt! No animal is perfect, and it is better to point out the faults than to go through life not knowing fact from fantasy!

This is a business- not a game!

DOC HARRIS
 

KMacGinley

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alexfarms":37l62rgi said:
The bull looks like he is pretty thin, hopefully, that is just because you have let him run out on poor forages over the winter. If that is the case and you fed him a little better and put some weight on him and set him up right so that he is standing better when you took the picture a lot of these same folks who don't like him now on this board would luv him. He may be a good bull that just has been roughing it or he may be a poor doing bull depending on how he has been taken care of. Do you have any calves by him yet? That will be the real test.

All the weight in the world won't change his poor structure. This bull is a vivid example of structural incorrectness.
 

mnmtranching

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I didn't mean to imply that this bull would compete at Denver. The real world of wintering cattle is a lot different then the pretty bull pics that you see in colorful magazines. :cowboy: This bull was probably Wintered on poorer hay without enough energy during a brutal Winter. WE see it all the time on CT, the FAT cattle get the praise. :?
 

alexfarms

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In the real world, emaciated cattle will cannibalize muscle. Yes you can feed muscle onto emaciated cattle. In the real world, snowy and slippery ground does affect the stance and gait of cattle that live on it. They aren't real good pictures because they don't put the bull in a flattering position, in fact they put him in a tough position. I don't think I am afraid to give an honest opinion to a poster and I have seen alot of damage done to the pocketbooks of cattlemen who were encouraged to pursue bulls that look really pretty but have never had to deal with real world conditions and are no better (and sometimes alot poorer) than the bull they have at home. I wouldn't condemn the bull based on these pictures and I sure wouldn't endorse him either. If he were my bull I would be a little (not a lot) concerned about his condition and how he may hold up. But I don't know what kind of care he has been getting. There are advantages to letting bulls rough it, when they aren't being asked to breed cows(ie: in the off season). As long as they are getting enough to live on, roughing it makes them tough, keeps them from getting TOO DARN BIG, and it seems like it keeps their feet naturally trimmed off to an extent that they can be more athletic during the breeding season. If you want to get a good picture of this bull, get some weight on him and snap the picture when he is standing pretty.
 

charangusman08

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To me he looks like you put him with too many cows and got run down, or didn't feed him right. I don't know though. I have a two year old red angus bull and weighs around 1450 and looks better than this one. Try to post some better pictures and take them when he isn't half asleep. We may be wrong and this may be a really nice bull. :nod:
 

mnmtranching

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alexfarms":26it7coo said:
In the real world, emaciated cattle will cannibalize muscle. Yes you can feed muscle onto emaciated cattle. In the real world, snowy and slippery ground does affect the stance and gait of cattle that live on it. They aren't real good pictures because they don't put the bull in a flattering position, in fact they put him in a tough position. I don't think I am afraid to give an honest opinion to a poster and I have seen alot of damage done to the pocketbooks of cattlemen who were encouraged to pursue bulls that look really pretty but have never had to deal with real world conditions and are no better (and sometimes alot poorer) than the bull they have at home. I wouldn't condemn the bull based on these pictures and I sure wouldn't endorse him either. If he were my bull I would be a little (not a lot) concerned about his condition and how he may hold up. But I don't know what kind of care he has been getting. There are advantages to letting bulls rough it, when they aren't being asked to breed cows(ie: in the off season). As long as they are getting enough to live on, roughing it makes them tough, keeps them from getting TOO DARN BIG, and it seems like it keeps their feet naturally trimmed off to an extent that they can be more athletic during the breeding season. If you want to get a good picture of this bull, get some weight on him and snap the picture when he is standing pretty.

Responses like this to me are REALLY refreshing! We got some REAL cattle people on CT :D
 

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