Herd Bull New Pictures

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mncattle

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I took a couple new pictures of that bull and a couple of steers out of him. Maybe I changed a few of your minds but maybe not, thats ok.

The storie out of him is I bought him to breed some heifers since my herd bull I normaly used was really too big for heifers. Well my herd bull last spring had to be put down and I liked that young bull so I still have him. I do think he is a little week in the rear but not too much. I overall liked the calves that came out of him last spring. I am not breeding for breeding stock just breeding for butcher animals.

Go ahead and tell me the good and the bad wont hurt my feelings at all.

AndrewsPictures043.jpg


AndrewsPictures051.jpg


AndrewsPictures050.jpg


AndrewsPictures040.jpg

couple of boys that came out of him not good pictures though
 

*Cowgirl*

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these pictures have servedto reaffirm my earlier belief. I'm not a fan of this bull, and don't think that a lack of condition is to blame for my opinion. Here are some things that stood out to me:
poor structure - fine boned, cow hocked, narrow based, and very coarse, "open" shouldered, decent topline
adequate length, fair depth, no width to speak of
muscling - none to speak of
sexual traits - semi masculine - in the 2nd picture, you can see his crest a bit, he's still fairly young, maybe with age and feed?, testicles - not present in any of the pictures that have been posted of this bull, I understand that it was cold, but their apparent absence leads me to believe that his testicular development leaves something to be desired, good sheath

How old are the 2 calves?

Overall, I wouldn't use him, but he surely isn't the worst bull I've ever laid eyes on.
 

KNERSIE

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Cowgirl (and I think Doc Harris too), please show me in which photo do you SEE him to be open shouldered.
 

alexfarms

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No.2 is a much better picture than your previous postings. The rear view picture isn't bad either. I don't see anything about this bull that would make me cull him, if you like his calves and calving ease is important to you and he has it. I would think you will want to look for a bull that has more depth of chest and muscle expresion and possibly less frame and earlier maturing for your next herd bull , since you are raising butcher beef. Don't sacrifice calving ease in the process though.
 

*Cowgirl*

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KNERSIE":2wm8xtix said:
Cowgirl (and I think Doc Harris too), please show me in which photo do you SEE him to be open shouldered.
Not sure what you're getting at, but in photo 2 on this thread you can see that his shoulder is quite coarse and does not lay in smoothly
 

mnmtranching

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If you use him for heifers make certain of his birth weight. Don't guess at it, the LAST thing you want is trouble with the heifers calving. If he has the proper birth weight I would go ahead and use him this year. But not keep him over, not worth feeding him another year. Sell him when the breeding is done and put it toward a new bull for next season. Go to a reputable breeder and get a bull with some breeding. IMO
 

KNERSIE

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*Cowgirl*":2ct5vpef said:
KNERSIE":2ct5vpef said:
Cowgirl (and I think Doc Harris too), please show me in which photo do you SEE him to be open shouldered.
Not sure what you're getting at, but in photo 2 on this thread you can see that his shoulder is quite coarse and does not lay in smoothly

What I am getting at is you cannot SEE in any of these photos that he is open shouldered. He may be slightly coarse shouldered, but there is a big difference between being open shouldered and coarse shouldered.
 

*Cowgirl*

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JR Cattle Co.":5u598wsf said:
Kudos Knersie, :clap: Very big difference in "open-shouldered" and "coarse shouldered".
I am aware of this, and maybe it isn't crystal clear in these photos. But since all that we've been given are pictures, we are to try to picture what the animal will look like in real life. This requires making inferences. And, in my opinion, if I was to see this bull face to face, I would determine him to be open shouldered; maybe our definitions of this term are different. I feel that we are to use any indicators provided in the photos and run with them. I realize that pictures are a very uneffective way of determing the merit of an individual, but that is what was provided.
 

JR Cattle Co.

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Cowgirl, the owner of this animal requested an evaluation based upon the pictures that were given, (You are correct on that point), but they have not requested people to make "inferences". From the pictures provided, an accurate assessment of the animal as being "open shouldered" cannot be made, therefore, requesting a picture that shows the proper angle of the animal might be in order to avoid the problem of guessing. In a livestock show, a judge does not "infer" about the quality of an animal if they cannot see the whole animal, they request that the handler reposition the animal, or they move around to get a better angle on the animal. Guesses should not be made.
 

DOC HARRIS

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KNERSIE":11kcjzbf said:
Cowgirl (and I think Doc Harris too), please show me in which photo do you SEE him to be open shouldered.
-KNERSIE-

Your inference that it is difficult (impossible) to SEE the "Fault" or "Blemish" of an animal being "open shouldered" is well taken. You are right. It is almost impossible in these pictures to "SEE" the condition of "Open Shouldered" structure. One gets in the habit (unfortunately) of observing a situation or condition and expressing an opinion, which may not be literally factual. In the case of this bull, it is a fallacy to say that I can see - "Open Shouldered" - when it is merely "Courseness".

Good observation.

Nevertheless, I still do not care for the "Phenotypic Appearance" that the bull expresses -IN THESE PICTURES. This is another good example of not judging or analyzing a seedstock bull, or cow, by a "Two Dimensional" image (picture), because, even though a picture is worth a thousand words, some of those words may not be intelligble or interpretable. "Open Shouldered" may mean one thing to one person, and "Courseness" may mean the same thing. It is all in the eye of the beholder!

DOC HARRIS
 

Jovid

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Santas and Duhram Reds":p8mjz41g said:
my opinion,

typical black angus bull that was bought merely for the fact that he is a black angus.

Kind of what I was thinking. We really don't know if he is a Angus but we do know he is black.
 
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