Help! 6 Week old bull calf- joint ill

[californiacattle]

Hi all!

I have a six week old calf with joint ill. He was separated from the herd and given LA200 four days in a row. He was feeling and acting better. Then we stupidly let him sit too long and he became sick again. Won't stand on his own due to pain, but will stand and drink if picked up.

Doesn't have much of an appetite due to pain I believe but I have been force feeding him milk replacer so he might not have much of an appetite due to that as well.

His front knee seems to be the only one effected. We began a second round of LA200 four days ago and now are advised to wait before giving more due to muscle deterioration. When we began the second round, his knee was tough. It is now much less swollen and squishy. We are going to lance and drain the knee tonight as I truly believe this will be our only option and best bet to save him. We plan on keeping him as a pet so I'm not worried about breeding or slaughter.

His breathing seems fine and he's not dehydrated but very weak and lethargic.

Have had phone calls with vet can't come out for a few more days but he recommended the LA200. However, we have Nuflor and baytril on hand.

My question is- should we try a round of nuflor? Injected into the knee or near it after lance and drain? Or is it a bad idea to inject nuflor since we just finished his round of LA200 yesterday? I have read many threads today where many ranchers recommend nuflor over the LA200.

 

[Silver]

I hate to be "that guy", but in my experience the odds of a happy ending to this story I are negligible at best.
A quick way to see if you have a slight chance of success is to take a syringe and draw some fluid off the joint. If it's not clear the ending will definitely be bad.
Your best odds might be 10 cc of penicillin every day for 10 days past the time the joint appears healed. And an anti inflammatory of some sort.
Perhaps one of the DVM's on this board will have better insight.

 

[californiacattle]

Thank you very much for the reply! We are putting a lot of extra time and effort into this guy because he just seems like he wants to live and get better so bad. I've never done or dealt with this before. He keeps hanging on so we feel as though we can't give up on him yet.

Would you recommended starting with Nuflor today even though we just gave 4 days straight of LA200, continue with LA200 for a few more days, or waiting five days and starting again with one?

Again, thank you!

 

[Hereford2]

My vet has me give Exceed every 5 days for a minimum of 4 times usually 6. And Banamine every 5 days when I give the Exceed in a separate syringe.

 

[Silver]

Thank you very much for the reply! We are putting a lot of extra time and effort into this guy because he just seems like he wants to live and get better so bad. I've never done or dealt with this before. He keeps hanging on so we feel as though we can't give up on him yet.

Would you recommended starting with Nuflor today even though we just gave 4 days straight of LA200, continue with LA200 for a few more days, or waiting five days and starting again with one?

Again, thank you!

I'm not a vet, but if was me I would not be afraid to go way above and beyond recommended dosages and I wouldn't take a break. I have had some success with Excede, it's a good drug. I haven't used Liquamycin for joint ill so can't comment

 

[californiacattle]

I'm not a vet, but if was me I would not be afraid to go way above and beyond recommended dosages and I wouldn't take a break. I have had some success with Excede, it's a good drug. I haven't used Liquamycin for joint ill so can't comment

Thank you so much! I agree. We don't really have much to lose so I think we're going to overdo it with the antibiotic to give him his best shot.

 

[californiacattle]

Update: drained his knee and gave him another shot of LA200. Hoping to see improvement. He seemed more willing to use his leg after the draining even though he was in pain. Hopefully that's a good sign.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Update: drained his knee and gave him another shot of LA200. Hoping to see improvement. He seemed more willing to use his leg after the draining even though he was in pain. Hopefully that's a good sign.

What color was the drainage?

 

[faster horses]

I agree with Silver. "Your best odds might be 10 cc of penicillin every day for 10 days past the time the joint appears healed. And an anti inflammatory of some sort." We used to have a lot of navel ill. We lost every calf that had it until a vet told us that the bacteria enters the navel and goes to the joint because the circulation is poor in the joint and the bacteria is safe there. He recommended 10 cc of penicillin for 5 days and 5 cc for 5 days and to do it every day. So after treating for 10 days, we never lost any more, plus we got our cattle on a year round mineral program which helped with their immune system and stopped having the problem. With your calf having been treated already, I'm not sure what the outcome will be. I hate NAVEL ILL, the calves get so sore and they have to suffer so many shots Makes my heart hurt.

Good luck.

After giving heavy doses of antibiotic be sure to treat with probiotics to get their gut flora working again.

 

[Son of Butch]

To prevent joint ill, it's a common practice on dairy farms to dip navels at birth with an iodine solution. Avoids future need for antibiotic treatment and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[Buck Randall]

I hate to be "that guy", but in my experience the odds of a happy ending to this story I are negligible at best.
A quick way to see if you have a slight chance of success is to take a syringe and draw some fluid off the joint. If it's not clear the ending will definitely be bad.
Your best odds might be 10 cc of penicillin every day for 10 days past the time the joint appears healed. And an anti inflammatory of some sort.
Perhaps one of the DVM's on this board will have better insight.

I have decent luck with treating them, but it requires early intervention with frequent treatments for an extended course. There are very few things that I recommend treating with LA 200, and joint ill isn't one of them.

 

[californiacattle]

I have decent luck with treating them, but it requires early intervention with frequent treatments for an extended course. There are very few things that I recommend treating with LA 200, and joint ill isn't one of them.

Thank you for the reply! What antibiotic would you recommend?

I've read that people have had good luck with Nuflor but the vet said LA200 was what he would be giving. However, he did tell us to break after four days. We ended up giving him another dose of LA200 tonight, making this his fifth day on it. It seems to be helping with the infection but I can't say whether it's actually curing it or just keeping it at bay.

 

[devonian]

To prevent joint ill, it's a common practice on dairy farms to dip navels at birth with an iodine solution. Avoids future need for antibiotic treatment and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I'm a beef farmer I do this with every calf born indoors in the winter and also give probitics and not had a calf die indoors since doing this. Father used to do this (iodine) with all lambs born indoors when we used to keep sheep. I do not generally bother when the cattle are out in the field during the rest of the year but its probably not a bad idea especially if the ground is very disturbed and mucky around where the calf is born.

 

[wbvs58]

I hate to be "that guy", but in my experience the odds of a happy ending to this story I are negligible at best.
A quick way to see if you have a slight chance of success is to take a syringe and draw some fluid off the joint. If it's not clear the ending will definitely be bad.
Your best odds might be 10 cc of penicillin every day for 10 days past the time the joint appears healed. And an anti inflammatory of some sort.
Perhaps one of the DVM's on this board will have better insight.

I think Silver nailed it and as he said in a later post, big doses of long duration are required. My preference is for bacteriocidal antibiotics such as penicillin ( they actually kill the bacteria) as opposed to bacteriostatic antibiotics such as the oxytetracyclines LA300 (they just slow them down) with joint ill.

Ken

 

[TCRanch]

Per my vet, treatment for joint ill:
Day 1 - Nuflor and Dex
Day 2 & 3 - Dex
Day 4 - Nuflor & Dex
Day 5 & 6 - Dex
Day 7 - Draxxin
I also give Pro Bios, so it won't mess up the gut.

I recently had a calf with a swollen knee, turns out he had a snake bite, but treatment was the same as joint ill. My vet advised against using Dex in conjunction with Banamine.

 

[californiacattle]

Update:

Unfortunately we had to put him down yesterday. It was definitely what was best for him but it was a lot harder than I would like to admit. I have never gotten attached to one of our cows/calves before so this was definitely a hard lesson learned.

Thank you so much for all of your genuinely helpful and nonjudgmental replies. I will definitely be using the information that I learned here in the future. This is a great community. Thanks again!

 

[Hereford2]

Update:

Unfortunately we had to put him down yesterday. It was definitely what was best for him but it was a lot harder than I would like to admit. I have never gotten attached to one of our cows/calves before so this was definitely a hard lesson learned.

Thank you so much for all of your genuinely helpful and nonjudgmental replies. I will definitely be using the information that I learned here in the future. This is a great community. Thanks again!

Sorry to hear that the calf didn't get better for you. You made the right decision.

 

[TCRanch]

@californiacattle, the first time you have to put one down is the hardest. But it never gets easier, just more accepting. You do what you have to do. Because you care enough to do what's best for the life you've tried so hard to save.

Attached? I went full-out ugly cry when I loaded my favorite BULL in the trailer for the last time. Attached is why so many of us soldier on through drought, epic weather, skyrocketing/nosediving prices, the virus that suddenly attacks your herd, lack of sleep during calving and the realization/acceptance that your jeans will never not smell like a bovine - in spite of your best efforts.

 

[californiacattle]

Sorry to hear that the calf didn't get better for you. You made the right decision.

Thank you so much. I didn't realize how much I was fighting for him to live until I realized he wouldn't. I still don't know what made me so attached to this one calf, but I will say he taught me a lot in his few weeks!

 

[californiacattle]

@californiacattle, the first time you have to put one down is the hardest. But it never gets easier, just more accepting. You do what you have to do. Because you care enough to do what's best for the life you've tried so hard to save.

Attached? I went full-out ugly cry when I loaded my favorite BULL in the trailer for the last time. Attached is why so many of us soldier on through drought, epic weather, skyrocketing/nosediving prices, the virus that suddenly attacks your herd, lack of sleep during calving and the realization/acceptance that your jeans will never not smell like a bovine - in spite of your best efforts.

Thank you, I resonate so much with all you have said!

Once he went downhill and I realized how much he was suffering a switch flipped and I knew we had to do what was right.

That's a tough one. We had to cull our bull that we had for about ten years last year and it was hard too. It makes me laugh every time I hear someone say that ranchers are heartless or cruel, if only they knew!!

Yup!! This year has been particularly hard for us but smelling like dirt/cattle/horses/feed is something we will never get rid of and I prefer it that way! Lol.