Heifers vs Steers on grass

[Lotu]

Going to get out of the cow/calf business and just run cattle when the grass is growing . Wanting to have more time for travel and such and the profit isnt there for tending cattle all year.

From may-oct on grass only diets what would the differnce in weight gained between same breed steers vs heifers be? Also what size cattle should i be looking to buy in late April early May to maximize profit in the fall when i sell them?

 

[marksmu]

Im going to say good luck in making that work out for you financially. I have often thought about doing this as I have way too much excess grass and plenty of investment money stacked away...and I cant find a way to make it worth the trouble.

Your going to need weaned animals to goto grass...so on average your looking at 200+/- 50 days old animals. At the barns around me, buying unmatched, odd ball muts, your looking at about $350 -$400 for the steers, and $300-$500 for the heifers depending on quality....figure you hold them for 5-6 months, and sell them, your looking at $500-$600 on the steers, and $500-$600 on the heifers.

So you have what $100/hd? in total income. Subtract expenses - hauling twice, fence repairs, losses, your time, etc and your going to be lucky to make $25-$40/hd

Its going to take alot of cows to get ahead at that rate. I am a super optimist, and I can see the value in almost everything, but this one just does not seem like you can do much if you have to buy and sell the cattle.

Your better off renting out your land, or finding someone to just pay you to custom graze....that way the risk is off you for the animal losses, and your only responsible for the upkeep of the property. Just my .02, and its worth what you payed for it since Im pretty new at this game.

 

[BC]

Your idea will work, but your timing is off. The cattle market is being driven right now for calves to go to grazing. The same cattle could be bought for $15 to $20 per cwt less in Nov and Dec and the first week or two in January.

Think about some type of ryegrass-clover mix and then to summer grass. If you want a lower input scenario try just roughing the cattle through winter and let them use compensatory gains on spring and early summer grass selling in July.

 

[grubbie]

Your fences have to be in real good shape for that in my experience. Plus, when heifers start cycling, if there is a bull nearby he will find a way to get to them unless he is in a corral. I have some neighbors who spay heifers and run them on grass like you are talking about. They must not be interested in profit. Other than that I also agree with what was said in the earlier replies.

 

[Brute 23]

I was thinking about the same thing. We sold out quite a few cattle last year and have ZERO plans of buying them back.

My thinking was that I could buy around the same size of the calves I already have on the ground so they could all be sold together. Plus once the bought calves calmed down they could be turned out with the herd, which would help keep them calm, as opposed to a pasture full of fresh calves.

Every one says there is no money in it... but when you look at how mcuh weight the cows and calves have put on just in this last month on a little green grass... its hard to believe. If you go by all the reports... Dun has posted several... that say you only profit $100 per every calf sold in a cow calf what is the difference? A little equity in cows... but then again with calves you should also be only working 6-8 mo out of the year. Plus you should be able to stock 1.5 to 2 calves per cow/ calf pair you were running.

Sounds good... Any one want to drink the kool-aid?

 

[Lotu]

Thanks for the replies . This part of the country is still a few weeks away from turning cattle out on grass alone. Thats why i am waiting til the last of april or first of may to buy.

There are numerous posts on these boards on how cow/calf operations are lucky to profit $100 per cow per year. I will only own cattle 5-6 monthes out of the year freeing up alot of time =$$$ . Also only eqipment i will need is my truck and livestock trailer which is already owned.

What type of gain per day can i expect out of angus/hereford steers or heifers on grass only?

 

[rowdyred]

Ok, I'm thinking of doing the same thing as you, with the exception of keeping my cow/calf pairs. I'v got a few friends who do this every year, mind you they do it small time, but they say they make a profit every year, one inparticular, broke it down for me this way, he buys his calves in April,(steers, bulls, heifers) and expects them to gain around 2 lbs per day on grass, in north Mississippi if we have enough rain, the grass on his place is very good, so on his calculations thats April: 30 days=60 lbs, May: 31 days=62 lbs, June: 30 days= 60 lbs, July: 31 days= 62 lbs, August: 31 days= 62 lbs, September: 30 days= 60 lbs, October: 31 days= 62 lbs. In a perfect world thats 428 lbs, it would depend on your price buying and price selling, but he calculates HE can make anywhere from $100-$175 per head. I'm willing to take a chance this year and try, I'm starting with 20 calves this year, If you decide to try, Good luck, and I hope we both make a profit.

 

[traderaaron]

I would highly suggest the book Pasture Profits with Stocker Cattle as a place to start. It will present some variations on the standard practices. Order directly, http://www.stockmangrassfarmer.net/Bookshelf.html.

Usually the most profit to be made is getting calves ready to be sold as grass cattle in the spring to ranchers in KS-OK-TX-CO-NM. You could sell 500-600# steers after hardening them up over the winter months on stockpiled forage. They are the most overvalued segment of the market generally in the spring and then buy back sub-400 pound heifers or heifers in general and graze them on your green grass, or take in custom grazed animals.

Buying grass steers when everyone else is and selling them during the seasonal lows for Cattle in the Fall is usually not a great way to make money. Calves are high, I'd rather be selling calves or grass yearlings.

 

[marksmu]

Ok, I'm thinking of doing the same thing as you, with the exception of keeping my cow/calf pairs. I'v got a few friends who do this every year, mind you they do it small time, but they say they make a profit every year, one inparticular, broke it down for me this way, he buys his calves in April,(steers, bulls, heifers) and expects them to gain around 2 lbs per day on grass, in north Mississippi if we have enough rain, the grass on his place is very good, so on his calculations thats April: 30 days=60 lbs, May: 31 days=62 lbs, June: 30 days= 60 lbs, July: 31 days= 62 lbs, August: 31 days= 62 lbs, September: 30 days= 60 lbs, October: 31 days= 62 lbs. In a perfect world thats 428 lbs, it would depend on your price buying and price selling, but he calculates HE can make anywhere from $100-$175 per head. I'm willing to take a chance this year and try, I'm starting with 20 calves this year, If you decide to try, Good luck, and I hope we both make a profit.

Like I said, Im an optimist - if it can be done profitably, I would love to do it. I hope someone here does it and posts their real experience. All too often we get into the habit of trying to sugarcoat our actual costs and not include things like fuel to/from the property if you do not live on it, or wear/tear on equipment.

I have over 300 acres I allow my neighbor to graze for free currently if he just mows it once a year....Its great grass, but too wet to even cut hay on. If I can dump a bunch of steers on there in April and pull em off in October/November - I would do it. I have just run the numbers for me, and I havent seen how I can make it work. If its done already I would love some real numbers and their experience.

 

[BC]

Mark, didn't you plant some ryegrass last fall? Thin lightweight heifers weighing 350 were bringing $75 to $80 per cwt. in November and December and nobody could be talked into buying them (have to feed them until grass puts up). A thin 600 lb grazing heifer was worth $103 today. What I am trying to say is when grass fever hits, the lower inputs of a summer grazing program still don't look as attractive.

One other consideration, buy upgradable cattle. A #1 can not get better, but a lot of 1 1/2 calves will look like #1's. Fat, a dehorn job and castration can cover a multitude of sins.

 

[Jogeephus]

I tend to agree with those who are saying that buying cattle at the traditional peaks and selling them at the traditional lows is not going to be that profitable. I think there will be years where this could work but in general I don't think it would do that great. However, I have a friend who has done really well by buying thin cows and putting them on thick grass, breeding them and selling bred fat cows in the fall. Cow prices don't seem to have the same spread as the other classes so what weight he does put on them he is normally paid at or about the same as he bought them. In other words, he gets paid a more direct price for the gain instead of being discounted for the added weight. My concern with this is bringing some funky disease onto my place but so far he has done extremely well with this.

 

[makemfat]

I did this last year. But I won't do it again. I bought around 100 head at the sale barn. All heifers. All in the 300 - 400 pound range. Some did fine, some didn't. My theory is that just because a calf can survive without its' momma at that age, doesn't mean it's the ideal thing to do. There were a few that became runts. Those went back to the sale barn as soon as I could decide they were runts. The rest stayed until the grass was gone. I made money on some, lost on others. I learned my lesson. I've gone back to more conventional methods.

 

[Aero]

From may-oct on grass only diets what would the differnce in weight gained between same breed steers vs heifers be?

a cattleman i trust has said he sees an 18% difference in gain from steers to heifers on grass.

light 400 lb calves bought right will do pretty well. dont buy anything over 600 lb.

 

[traderaaron]

And to confuse this further all we run is 600# heifers on grass, they are fed out coming off grass. Seems that grass buyers don't want a 600# heifer, or a heifer at all and you can find a spot to buy.