Commercialfarmer
Well-known member
Anyone have experience or thoughts on 5 day cosynch with cidr instead of 7 day protocol. One source I've read reports 5 day being preferable, other says 7 day.
Heifers 5 day vs 7 day cosynch
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everybody will have different opinions. I like the 7 day best, one time less through the chute,a little savings on the extra shot of PG. If I understand the PG its a half life drug, absorbed immediatly into the muscle and starts doing what it does, so if thats the case what does the second shot do 8 to 10 hours later? Dont know.. I have used the 5 day just didnt get along well with it.
toughntender
Well-known member
I'm just the opposite to bse, I only use the 5 day program anymore. Yes it is one more time through the chute, and one extra shot of pgf2a, but I've had better luck getting everybody to show heat at the same time. Last fall for example we synced up 10 cows using the 5 day, and timed Aied all of them. We didn't give gnrh to the 6 that showed a good standing heat, but we did to the other 4 at breeding that we didn't see standing. I realize that it is a small sample size, but we had 9 out of ten stick. We also had one other cow that just happened to line up perfectly on her own with everyone else, and she also stuck to ai. All told we had 10 out of 11. A normal percentage with the timed ai is usually 55-65, so my results were atypical.
The reason you give the second pgf2a shot at 8-10 hours is that there has to be a corpus luteum present for the pg to work on. Pgf2a regresses the CL and initiates the onset of estrus. Some animals might not have a CL at the time of the first shot, but will 8-10 hrs later. Hope this helps.
The reason you give the second pgf2a shot at 8-10 hours is that there has to be a corpus luteum present for the pg to work on. Pgf2a regresses the CL and initiates the onset of estrus. Some animals might not have a CL at the time of the first shot, but will 8-10 hrs later. Hope this helps.
CJohnson
Well-known member
From everything I have read the conception rate on heifers is higher with the 5 day compared to 7 day. Last year we used the 5 day Co-Sync protocol. This year I changed to the 14 day CIDR protocol with fixed TAI. I will not know my pregnancy rate for another 3 weeks but seems to have worked better compared to last year based on how many heifers were displaying heat at the time of AI, and how active my clean-up bulls have been. Fingers crossed!
Commercialfarmer
Well-known member
Thanks for everyone's experiences. Tried the 5 so I'd be free for mother's day, figured that was the wisest option. 
Gave first dose pgf Wed evening. Out of 7 heifers, 1 showed heat Friday morning, another 5 by Friday evening, so 6 out of 7 showed strong heat response. 1 wasn't observed but only checked them twice daily and also gave the second pgf injection closer to 15 hours after the second.
Pulled 15 cows that were around 40 to 50 days post partum at time of AI, 1 showed heat Friday evening with the heifers, the majority of the rest seemed to be coming in Saturday evening.
Bred the heifers except the first Sat morning and gave gnrh to the one that hadn't showed. Bred the cows at 72 hrs (Sat evening) with gnrh except the early one which was bred 12 hrs post heat.
I suspect the cows would have cycled earlier had I adhered to the protocol better on the second pgf injection of 8 hrs, but life interfered. Read original studies of it going out as far as 24 hrs and still tai at 72.
Gave first dose pgf Wed evening. Out of 7 heifers, 1 showed heat Friday morning, another 5 by Friday evening, so 6 out of 7 showed strong heat response. 1 wasn't observed but only checked them twice daily and also gave the second pgf injection closer to 15 hours after the second.
Pulled 15 cows that were around 40 to 50 days post partum at time of AI, 1 showed heat Friday evening with the heifers, the majority of the rest seemed to be coming in Saturday evening.
Bred the heifers except the first Sat morning and gave gnrh to the one that hadn't showed. Bred the cows at 72 hrs (Sat evening) with gnrh except the early one which was bred 12 hrs post heat.
I suspect the cows would have cycled earlier had I adhered to the protocol better on the second pgf injection of 8 hrs, but life interfered. Read original studies of it going out as far as 24 hrs and still tai at 72.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
We've been doing the 5-day for the past 3 years, on the Spring-calving herd(Fall herd is just bred on observed heats, as they're penned up near the house). Have seen anecdotal reports that the second prostaglandin injection is not necessary for heifers... and that giving a double dose of Lutalyze/Estrumate is as effective as the two doses 8-12 hrs apart. I'm not a reproductive physiologist, so I can't say for sure that any of that is true.
Worked great in 2013; got 90% of cows bred on that single AI service - bull didn't have much to do that season.
2014...only about half the cows cycled in and were bred AI. Can't recall now how long we held 'em before turning 'em out to the bull.
Synched a group of 22 cows & heifers last week(GnRH+CIDR, CIDR pulled after 5 days + double dose of Estrumate); all cows were at least 60 days post calving. Had 16 come into heat and bred in the first 3 days...but then one in heat at 96 hrs, two at 130 hrs, and two more this morning...150+hrs.
I know some folks would just timed-AI the ones not seen in heat... but if we'd have done that - breeding at 72-84 hrs - we'd have missed a bunch of this group, as we'd have been way too early.
Two more in that group that haven't shown heat yet...I'm holding 'em a while longer...but if I get out 10-11 days post CIDR-pull and pgf2 and don't see anything out of them, I'm popping 'em with another dose of Estrumate.
Have another group that we'll be pulling in next time they rotate past the barnlot... will likely do the 5-day protocol on 'em, but will be on the lookout for some distant tail-enders!
Worked great in 2013; got 90% of cows bred on that single AI service - bull didn't have much to do that season.
2014...only about half the cows cycled in and were bred AI. Can't recall now how long we held 'em before turning 'em out to the bull.
Synched a group of 22 cows & heifers last week(GnRH+CIDR, CIDR pulled after 5 days + double dose of Estrumate); all cows were at least 60 days post calving. Had 16 come into heat and bred in the first 3 days...but then one in heat at 96 hrs, two at 130 hrs, and two more this morning...150+hrs.
I know some folks would just timed-AI the ones not seen in heat... but if we'd have done that - breeding at 72-84 hrs - we'd have missed a bunch of this group, as we'd have been way too early.
Two more in that group that haven't shown heat yet...I'm holding 'em a while longer...but if I get out 10-11 days post CIDR-pull and pgf2 and don't see anything out of them, I'm popping 'em with another dose of Estrumate.
Have another group that we'll be pulling in next time they rotate past the barnlot... will likely do the 5-day protocol on 'em, but will be on the lookout for some distant tail-enders!
Commercialfarmer
Well-known member
From what I can tell, only heifer that came back in was the one I didnt see evidence of heat and just TAI'd her. So I guess that's around 85% success on an extremely small sample size, if I was to put a number on it. The cows aren't in an area easily monitored, guess ill find out in 8 months on them.
