Heifer + 112 lb calf = crappy night

[agmantoo]

Admittedly I am not as a seasoned cattle person as many here. I am having a problem understanding why so many people that visit this site and have calving issues continue to cope with the problem. A dead calf and/or a cow with resulting delivery and rebreeding issues cannot be a profit generator or a satisfying hobby. IMO, the majority of the calving problems were generated by man and are fixable. Cull heavily and select stock that do not have a history of calving issues seems too simple not to be a solution. Where am I thinking incorrectly?

 

[Stocker Steve]

IMO, the majority of the calving problems were generated by man and are fixable. Cull heavily and select stock that do not have a history of calving issues seems too simple not to be a solution. Where am I thinking incorrectly?

Some folks like doing things the hard way...
We AI heifers to calving ease bulls, and then use higher growth + BW bulls on the cows. If they have trouble with that then they are gone.
We have a lot of Herf and SW blood in our cows but they are able to handle bigger calves than some other breeds.
Biggest calf last year was 115# and he was delivered unassisted. Mom is a second calver is out of a top cow and she bred back on time.
Biggest problem last year was a blocky 84# BA calf. He went on the bone pile, and his mom is gone.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Thank you, Isomade. We positioned ourselves to be pulling downward when we were working on the hips but I can see how a puller would be great to use, especially if we had her in the chute. She was bred by our RA bull. His bw was 71 and his CED is high. Most of his calves have been small to medium. That said, we've had 2 big calves out of him including this one. I think the high bw came from the heifers. They're shorthorn, which I love, but I've had a hard time finding the "right kind" of shorthorn in my area. This heifer's bw was 89 lbs, which in our herd would be considered very large for a female calf. Yes, we're expecting more calves from him although I don't anticipate more problems. Knock on wood :roll:

IMO...get rid of bull and heifer. Like a human female trying to give birth to a 15 lb baby vaginally.

It could happen again...something amiss in bull/heifer genetics...

JMO

 

[Nesikep]

My breeding so far, and probably forever will be focusing on maternal calving ease, and reduction of problems associated with calving, especially on the mother's side, as that is what I have the most control over. Last year we had a 115lb calf come out of a heifer, and my old man and I nearly had to pull the calf in half to get him out, she had some serious injuries inside, but bred back on time, though she is the one with imminent vaginal prolapses, so she's on the list to go anyhow. Meanwhile, this year, out of my better maternal calving lines, a heifer had a 110 lb bull calf with a bit of assistance (I think she might have done it herself, but I was there), Placenta was out by morning and eaten, and she had tons of milk. The shape of the heads of the calves from this line is much better, they're long thin heads, while a very experienced cow this year had trouble with the same weight calf, largely because he was a complete blockhead. I would kinda like to know why we had about 8 of 18 calves this year born over 100 lbs (and the last 3 years), while before we'd have maybe one or two.

 

[Massey135]

Are you talking about the same bulls? I believe the birth weight of the calves goes up as the bull gets older?

You're kidding, RIGHT?

I don't know if not he/she's ever even seen a cow. Last comment was saying cow would die if not gotten up immediately after calving paralysis...now this???

Think I remember reading this poster say something like a bull will kill all the calves in the pasture if he's not taken away when the cows are calving.

Newcomers see that "guru" status and, unknowingly, they associate a certain level of expertise with the poster. Clearly these kind of comments lack cattle sense altogether. The admin needs to regulate.

 

[Gelbvieh 5]

Massey 135 if you are going to quote Suzie Q why not post all of her statements that followed where she qualified the post. Of course then you wouldn't be able to be quite so patronizing or snide.
She's a decent sincere person who sure doesn't deserve to be slaughtered by a moron like you. You say more dumb things in a day than she has in the whole time she has been here.
Andswer me a question. Does it make you more to make someone else less? Here's her following post:

That was what the question mark was for!

I read it in one of the posts on this forum, but I don't think there was anything to prove it and I can't remember which thread as not a recent one. Maybe the same person will come in and read this thread.

 

[Suzie Q]

I think you have someone else. My bull is in with the cows and calves 24/7 all year round. We are in Australia and don't have to worry about the cold you have. We don't even have a barn for them to shelter in as we don't need it.

I did not say that a cow would die if not got up from calving paralysis immediately. What I have said in the past was that I was feeding a cow for a neighbour when we first arrived who was down with calving paralysis and I only fed her while they were away for a weekend and was told by the person who lived here before us that if the cow was not lifted it would die. When the neighbour came back they shot her, so I don't think they gave her much of a chance. I found out later that they did have lifters and I had a FEL so could have lifted her if they had asked me to, but being new I didn't ask about it or do it.

I have read the threads on here that say that cows have lived with being turned so I know now that they don't have to be lifted to survive, but that doesn't mean that lifting them doesn't help either.

We now have a product in the fridge called "KEY". We have been told that if a cow is down and won't get up if given a good kick, then inject her with it. It reduces the swelling on the nerve which has swollen with being pressed during calving, but I don't know if you have that product over there. So far we have not used it - Going on over 8 years so can not tell you if it works or not and it is probably out of date now anyway.

I was surprised to read in this thread about surprise that the afterbirth was eaten. Yes it would attract predators so cows do eat the afterbirth, it is not unnatural.

 

[Suzie Q]

Awww Thank you Gelbvieh 5. I didn't read your post before I posted.

What I said about the birthweights only comes from what I believe and from my experience - that being very young bulls who only start with their first year of breeding. Kept a year or two and then replaced with another young one.

I have never had an older bull than that, so couldn't comment if they keep getting bigger after their second breeding year as I have no experience with it.

One of the reasons I picked a Bazadais bull is because of their advertising low birth weights. Some of the calves really do look tiny when they are born. Extra muscling kicks in in the first month and then they appear a bit bigger.

I used to get photos of the calves from Day 1, but alas a full time job now and now there are calves there that I don't see until they are a few weeks old and some I haven't even photographed. My hubby is looking after them now and he isn't really interested in photography.

I really do need to pull my finger out and catch up with it again. It is pitch black out there at the moment and it will probably be dark when I am home during the week with me working from 8am - 5pm and winter approaching. Aaah well weekends will have to suffice.

Well enough of my babbling. You can go back to the topic now!! :compute:

 

[Massey135]

Massey 135 if you are going to quote Suzie Q why not post all of her statements that followed where she qualified the post. Of course then you wouldn't be able to be quite so patronizing or snide.
She's a decent sincere person who sure doesn't deserve to be slaughtered by a moron like you. You say more dumb things in a day than she has in the whole time she has been here.
Andswer me a question. Does it make you more to make someone else less? Here's her following post:

That was what the question mark was for!

I read it in one of the posts on this forum, but I don't think there was anything to prove it and I can't remember which thread as not a recent one. Maybe the same person will come in and read this thread.

I'm not questioning whether she's a decent sincere person or not, I'm sure she's one for the gipper-

Its not an issue of making someone more or less, its about newcomers, accessing this site and reading terribly misinformed information. I know that when I first starting reading this forum- I, unknowingly as well, associated a certain level of expertise with those with "guru" status- little did I know that status was quantified by quantity of information- and not quality.

Show me one topic I've replied on where my response was just blatently incorrect..

 

[Suzie Q]

Blatently incorrect that you said I kept bulls separate from cows and calves because I thought they were dangerous.

The post you posted from me I was asking a question. I was asking a question to learn. I am allowed to learn as well as other people on this board and that was why I came to this board to learn about cattle.

So blatently incorrect that you said I was saying that as a fact. I was asking if it was true.

That is just from reading this thread. I haven't read through your other threads. Time for breaky. See ya.

 

[Anguscattle]

I dont know either of you, and i am new on here. I would say that when you look at a persons post and "status" you would think that they know quite a bit. I would recommend getting second opinions on just about everything you read on here. Some may be the absolute truth, some are just false.
Although im new to the site, I do have quite a bit of knowledge and experience with cattle and ive seen some so called "guru" posts that are just bullcrap! So yeah, second opinion if youre not sure!

And that wasnt a jab at either of you. My opinion