Heifer + 112 lb calf = crappy night

[Nesikep]

I'm really starting to wonder exactly how much the bulls bw matters.. our last 2 bulls were under 100 lbs, and the cows we're breeding them to weren't heavy, but in the last 3 years our birthweights have gone WAY up, for no good reason, though lazy cows could be one of them...
5 years ago it was a rarity to have a 100+ lb calf, but in the last 3 years I can say we've probably had 30% over 110
my milkable cow (aka the Horse) calved earlier this week... another 140 lbs bull calf, last year was a 120 lb heifer, and the year before a 140 lb bull calf... This time she did it while I was watching.. she knows how for sure... her BW was 80 lbs, as well as her sisters and most of the others in the family, the bulls she was bred to were under 100, and only her first calf was 80 lbs... I'm starting to wonder what gives

 

[Suzie Q]

Are you talking about the same bulls? I believe the birth weight of the calves goes up as the bull gets older?

 

[3waycross]

Are you talking about the same bulls? I believe the birth weight of the calves goes up as the bull gets older?

Any empirical data to substantiate that theory.

 

[randiliana]

I don't think so, the bulls genetics stay the same regardless of age...

Could be your feed, high protein in the last trimester will increase BW. We had some real huge BW's one year, we had fed split chickpeas during the last trimester. Really jumped our BW's up.

 

[dun]

Are you talking about the same bulls? I believe the birth weight of the calves goes up as the bull gets older?

You're kidding, RIGHT?

 

[Nesikep]

I believe you get more bull as people get older

our feed hasn't changed in 20 years, usually the cows are fed first cut hay all winter, we save the second cut for when they milk, the first year of the really high BW's it was a new shorthorn bull, so we thought it was just him, but then we are still having the same bw's with a gelbvieh.. I don't know the exact bw of either of them, but the GV was used on heifers before we got him, so I don't imagine it to be that high, unless the reason they sold him was that they were pulling too many calves.. not impossible

 

[Suzie Q]

That was what the question mark was for!

I read it in one of the posts on this forum, but I don't think there was anything to prove it and I can't remember which thread as not a recent one. Maybe the same person will come in and read this thread.

 

[dun]

That was what the question mark was for!

I read it in one of the posts on this forum, but I don't think there was anything to prove it and I can't remember which thread as not a recent one. Maybe the same person will come in and read this thread.

It is bogus. The genes he passes are the same from birth to death. The bull may get bigger but his sperm won;t be and won;t pass more of anything as he ages.

 

[Suzie Q]

Thanks Dun, that is what I was thinking so put the question mark for someone like you to answer. Thank you.

 

[2/B or not 2/B]

OVER A YEAR LATER

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I wanted to be able to add that this heifer, now a cow, had a healthy, unassisted 104 lb. bull calf a couple of weeks ago. Big calf, but she did it just fine and took to mothering him right off. We were nervous before she calved, but as some have said, a cow who recovers from a hard pull can usually handle big calves ever after. (Thank you for the encouragement, Randi) I'm glad she was able to recover and that we kept her. Clearly, she is not a low birth weight cow...

This is a photo of her last year, shortly after she stood. She had lost a lot of weight. She also ended up losing patches of hair on her joints where she laid.

Here she is now and with her calf.

 

[Keren]

She is beautiful and her calf is lovely!

Congrats on it all turning out well :banana:

 

[Suzie Q]

:banana: :banana: :banana:

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I am glad you resurrected his thread. Good information here and it's great to see it had a happier ending than beginning.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

I just love these before and after deals! great to see the pics and hear of the success stories.

glad it worked out for you.

Katherine

 

[E in PA]

Glad it all worked out! I agree with Katherine. Unfortunately most of the issues on these boards end in failure, which comes with the territory. But those failures make the success that much more rewarding in my opinion.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

She is beautiful and so is her calf. Good job.
Little tip. When trying to rotate the calf to get the hips out, take a cane (or stick) and put it between the calves front legs - close to it's chest, & use the cane to twist the calf. You can put quite a bit of presure on the calf.
If we ever have to help at calving, we use a soft cotton rope tied to a pole, looped thru the handles, then back around the pole. Pull tight, then step or sit on the rope - in conjunction with her pushes. You can re-string the rope thru just one handle to work one shoulder thru at a time.

 

[Massey135]

Thank you, Isomade. We positioned ourselves to be pulling downward when we were working on the hips but I can see how a puller would be great to use, especially if we had her in the chute. She was bred by our RA bull. His bw was 71 and his CED is high. Most of his calves have been small to medium. That said, we've had 2 big calves out of him including this one. I think the high bw came from the heifers. They're shorthorn, which I love, but I've had a hard time finding the "right kind" of shorthorn in my area. This heifer's bw was 89 lbs, which in our herd would be considered very large for a female calf. Yes, we're expecting more calves from him although I don't anticipate more problems. Knock on wood :roll:

JR Ranch in Othello Washington, Albaughs or JbarJ in Fallon, Nevada- Shane Moe in North Powder Oregon. Bigelow Farms in CA is not too far from you. All these folks have the "right kind."

 

[Nesikep]

Nice looking calf this year... I might as well update you on the hard pull heifer we had last year while I'm here, She bred back on the first round, and had a 90 lb heifer calf with no troubles this year. However, she does show signs of being prolapse prone, so I might keep her one more year and ship her off, especially depending on how big this heifer calf of hers grows, as last years bull calf was a master thief and his good performance wasn't (entirely) due to her.

 

[2/B or not 2/B]

She is beautiful and so is her calf. Good job.
Little tip. When trying to rotate the calf to get the hips out, take a cane (or stick) and put it between the calves front legs - close to it's chest, & use the cane to twist the calf. You can put quite a bit of presure on the calf.
If we ever have to help at calving, we use a soft cotton rope tied to a pole, looped thru the handles, then back around the pole. Pull tight, then step or sit on the rope - in conjunction with her pushes. You can re-string the rope thru just one handle to work one shoulder thru at a time.

Thank you, Jeanne. Had I known about the soft cotton rope, it would have been a better choice to try first. I will definitely remember about the stick. An old broom handle might work well and that's a really useful tip.

JR Ranch in Othello Washington, Albaughs or JbarJ in Fallon, Nevada- Shane Moe in North Powder Oregon. Bigelow Farms in CA is not too far from you. All these folks have the "right kind."

Thanks Massey, this heifer is Shane Moe x Bigelow Farms on the bottom and Cates Farms x Marion Preston on the top. There are not a lot of shorthorns in this area that are free of show lines, which is unfortunate and disappointing since they are such good cattle. We have an old Bigelow cow now and had another previously, her half sister. We've kept heifers from both but won't see the heifers' calves until fall. They're productive cows and calve easily, but my oh my they are large framed and hard doing. Granted I didn't get first pick of the sale, and it's actually a funny story because it was a fast auction, and although I thought I had only purchased one cow, I had actually purchased two :shock: Luckily, we wanted two in the first place but it has scared me off of bidding since. Our Bigelow cow is in calf to Saskvalley Bonanza.

Nice looking calf this year... I might as well update you on the hard pull heifer we had last year while I'm here, She bred back on the first round, and had a 90 lb heifer calf with no troubles this year. However, she does show signs of being prolapse prone, so I might keep her one more year and ship her off, especially depending on how big this heifer calf of hers grows, as last years bull calf was a master thief and his good performance wasn't (entirely) due to her.

Thank you, Nesikep. We've had a thief calf too and some shorthorns are so docile they don't mind and allow it. Shows how EPD's can get messed up doesn't it. That's a hard decision on your heifer. I guess if you're experienced with prolapse and feel comfortable that you could fix it, the risk is worth it. I haven't had experience with it yet and knock on wood because there are enough other things to fix and worry over.

 

[Nesikep]

The prolapses we have here a vulval prolapes, not uterine prolapses, the latter is harder to fix. I'm very wary of any calf that isn't raised by his biological mother, and the performance of a heifer who wasn't raised by her own mother... I've seen adopted calves from poor biological mothers milk well.. but I wouldn't keep any of their calves. I also have a cow who doesn't calf a bull calf lighter than 135 lbs, regardless of sire. Her first calf was a 80 lb heifer, and her own birthweight (and siblings) was only 80ish lbs, so I don't know why she makes these big calves. I hear you about some Shorthorns being hard keepers and big framed. We have a couple who look like they're designed to be coathangers, but they milk well. We have one 1/2 shorthorn who's about a Frame 9 and 2000 lbs, and she's the sweetest animal you could ask for.

With the prolapses, I found they get worse with age, so if they aren't too bad this year, I'll keep them for another year and get rid of them next fall

I had a heifer this year who had a 110 lb bull calf, I had to pull a bit but it went really well with no damage, she got right up and started licking, and after a week the calf still can't keep up with her milk. Placenta discharged right away and to my surprise, eaten. This heifer isn't one who is prolapse prone, despite the fact that she looked like you could drive a semi-truck out of her butt before she calved
Pudding butT, a full week before calving


Her and her bull calf 3 days later