ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
yep he was a character,, all his rides looked like cookie cutter... are as Don Gay would say another day at the officedun":2v5lamu6 said:
Heat Tolerance and the Cattle Market
- Thread starter JWBrahman
- Start date
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I saw one rodeo where some young guy tried that flying dismount like he did. I don;t know how he managed but he did a half sumersalut over the broncs head. That was almost worth the price of admissionALACOWMAN":1wf5zz2o said:
LH vs. BR is a no brainer question to most in the south. I would choose a high percentage brahman cow over a longhorn any day for a heat tolerant & good foraging brood cow. I think most others would agree. Many benefits with BR over LH, besides calf color & not having those big obstacles attached to their head... cows with good BR influence are very hardy, tick resistant can regulate size of calf and provide good milk.
What I don't understand is why many producers are breeding down the % BR in their herds, to levels that seem too low to me. They're taking Gerts and Brafs and breeding them to RA and Gelb, resulting in offspring that carry 50% of the 3/8 brahman composite (Gert/Braf) blood, which boils down to only 12.5% BR. However, it seems that 25% BR would be the minimum to get enough heat tolerance and other benefits.
Large producer example:
http://www.king-ranch.com/santa_cruz.html
The big producers that are centered around one composite, (like King with Gerts or Adams with Brafords), could instead just breed their 3/8 BR composites to Balancer bulls and then put the resulting select bull offspring back over their 3/8 composite cows. This would give them a new composite that is centered around their main breed but tones down the BR to 28%, which would be closer to what the market prefers for carcass quality, while at the same time still being pretty hardy & functional.
However, aside from large producers centered around one brahman influenced composite breed... IMO, the best composite using these breeds would be achieved by putting Gelb bulls over Gert cows to produce Gelb/Gert cross bulls to be bred to Red Brangus cows. The resulting offspring would be 1/4 Gelb, 1/4 Gert and 1/2 Red Brangus. The blend would be 41% Angus, 31% Gelb and 28% BR. The BR influence from stabilized genetics would be just enough, good hybrid vigor would be achieved, calves would be homogenous and the ear would be toned down a bit compared to the usual 3/8 or 37.5% BR composite.
What I don't understand is why many producers are breeding down the % BR in their herds, to levels that seem too low to me. They're taking Gerts and Brafs and breeding them to RA and Gelb, resulting in offspring that carry 50% of the 3/8 brahman composite (Gert/Braf) blood, which boils down to only 12.5% BR. However, it seems that 25% BR would be the minimum to get enough heat tolerance and other benefits.
Large producer example:
http://www.king-ranch.com/santa_cruz.html
The big producers that are centered around one composite, (like King with Gerts or Adams with Brafords), could instead just breed their 3/8 BR composites to Balancer bulls and then put the resulting select bull offspring back over their 3/8 composite cows. This would give them a new composite that is centered around their main breed but tones down the BR to 28%, which would be closer to what the market prefers for carcass quality, while at the same time still being pretty hardy & functional.
However, aside from large producers centered around one brahman influenced composite breed... IMO, the best composite using these breeds would be achieved by putting Gelb bulls over Gert cows to produce Gelb/Gert cross bulls to be bred to Red Brangus cows. The resulting offspring would be 1/4 Gelb, 1/4 Gert and 1/2 Red Brangus. The blend would be 41% Angus, 31% Gelb and 28% BR. The BR influence from stabilized genetics would be just enough, good hybrid vigor would be achieved, calves would be homogenous and the ear would be toned down a bit compared to the usual 3/8 or 37.5% BR composite.
Massey135
Well-known member
Friends don't let friends use crossbred bulls. Please quit spreading that rhetoric.
The market doesn't prefer a '28%' brahman for carcass quality. The prefer 0% and accept up to bout a 3/16 before discounting.
A true composite has stabalized percentages. Brangus and gerts and beefmasters are composites. Balancers are not.
The market doesn't prefer a '28%' brahman for carcass quality. The prefer 0% and accept up to bout a 3/16 before discounting.
A true composite has stabalized percentages. Brangus and gerts and beefmasters are composites. Balancers are not.
Massey135
Well-known member
You want stabalized genetics from the sire - and ideally a 2 cross cow. This is why the f1 cow bred to a bull of a third breed is the most ideal.
Wonder why King is using GertxRA bulls bred to GertXGelb cows and vice versa? Adams here in Fl is doing the same, but with brafords instead of gerts. however, they're a few years into making a stabalized composite. If someone is breeding for the feedlot, then yes, the F1 cow bred to PB bull of 3rd breed (pref cont 4 growth) is best for hybrid vigor. Its a end run towards a final product, maximizing heterotosis in the calf. However, not everyone is breeding for this end. To absolutely rule out a crossbred bull under any circumstance is probably not considering someone's specific breeding goals. Plenty of folks use CB bulls like balancer, simangus, etc. ...there must be some reason they chose to use them, aside from listening to someone else's rhetoric.
My point about the brahman % is that these big outfits that are located in hot areas are producing brood cows with 3/16 brahman blood, while I'd think that at least 1/4 would be needed, not only for sufficient heat tolerance, but also for the cows to have the ability to regulate the size of their unborn calf, which is a trait that only comes from the brahman influence.
Personally, I've decided that if I keep at it long enough, I'll use PB Brangus bulls in the future, so that my introduction of brahman blood comes from stabilized and consistent lines. A couple of rounds of Brangus over the angus and I'll have the cow herd I want. No F1 brahman cross bulls, etc.
My point about the brahman % is that these big outfits that are located in hot areas are producing brood cows with 3/16 brahman blood, while I'd think that at least 1/4 would be needed, not only for sufficient heat tolerance, but also for the cows to have the ability to regulate the size of their unborn calf, which is a trait that only comes from the brahman influence.
Personally, I've decided that if I keep at it long enough, I'll use PB Brangus bulls in the future, so that my introduction of brahman blood comes from stabilized and consistent lines. A couple of rounds of Brangus over the angus and I'll have the cow herd I want. No F1 brahman cross bulls, etc.
andybob
Well-known member
One Brangus breeder I visited in Texas has included Tuli genetics in his herd to improve fertility and reduce the 'ear' a little without compromising heat tolerance and calf size, some of the larger Australian cattle stations are investing in Sanga genetics after the last severe drought, to compliment rather than replace their Brahman percentage in their herds (mainly Santa Gertrudis and Charbray).
