Health care

[Frankie]

We don't have the best medical care in the world. As our costs rise, more and more Americans are taking "medical vacations" and going to other countries for medical procedures.

Health care in the United States is provided by many separate legal entities. More is spent on health care in the United States on a per capita basis than in any other nation in the world.[1][2] A study of international health care spending levels published in the health policy journal Health Affairs in the year 2000 found that the U.S. spends substantially more on health care than any other country in the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), and that the use of health care services in the U.S. is below the OECD median by most measures. The authors of the study conclude that the prices paid for health care services are much higher in the U.S.[3] Medical debt is the principal cause of personal bankruptcy in the United States,[4] weakening the whole economy.

According to data compiled and published by the international pharmaceutical industry, the US is the world leader in biomedical research and development as well as the introduction of new biomedical products; pharmaceutical industry trade organizations also maintain that the high cost of health care in the U.S. has encouraged substantial reinvestment in such research and development.[5][6][7] Despite that, the US pays twice as much yet lags other wealthy nations in such measures as infant mortality and life expectancy, which are among the most widely collected, hence useful, international comparative statistics. For 2006-2010, the USA's life expectancy will lag 38th in the world, after most rich nations, lagging last of the G5 (Japan, France, Germany, UK, USA) and just after Chile (35th) and Cuba (37th).[8]

Active debate over health care reform in the United States concerns questions of a right to health care, access, fairness, efficiency, cost, and quality. The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[9][10] The WHO study has been criticized, in an article published in Health Affairs, for its failure to include the satisfaction ratings of the general public.[11] A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries.[12] The U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than all other developed countries.[nb 1][13] According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage" (i.e. some kind of insurance).[14][15] The same Institute of Medicine report notes that "Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States." [14] Estimates of the total number of people in the United States who die because of lack of medical care range upwards of nearly 100,000 per year.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_car ... ted_States

We have a situation in our community now. Two elderly men (covered by Medicare) are recovering from serious health problems (cancer and heart bypass). A third, younger man who has no insurance is lying in the teaching hospital, wondering what can/will be done about his cancer.

Some people in this country may have the best healthcare available, but millions have no health care at all. And many of them die. Who supports their kids then?

20 cents of every dollar of health care premiums go to overhead for the insurance companies: salaries, advertisement, private jets for CEOs, etc.

 

[TexasBred]

Medicare is so corrupt and over burdened with government waste I don;t look upon is as a good business model.

Business model? The big insurance companies have a great business model, I guess. If you actually get sick, they drop your coverage. The potential new government health care program won't be a for-profit business. It will be a service to citizens of the country who can't get insurance coverage.

The gov't should be wonderful at this then...they've never had a program that even broke even, let alone came close to a profit. I've been in vet hospitals Frankie...don't tell me about quality of care. The gov't might have save some bucks but that was about all.

 

[novatech]

A lot of good info. here regardless of your current openion.
http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia ... ealth-care

 

[Carlos D.]

A lot of good info. here regardless of your current openion.
http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia ... ealth-care

now that has some very interesting material ---I really had no idea gov. health care was so big in the world

 

[Txwalt]

I'd be willing to compromise and let the states that want this program take it. Call it a trial run. The rest of the states can sit and watch the results. Then we go from there. I don't quite understand why we can't trial run this thing first.

Walt

 

[Ryder]

I'd be willing to compromise and let the states that want this program take it. Call it a trial run. The rest of the states can sit and watch the results. Then we go from there. I don't quite understand why we can't trial run this thing first.

Walt

That is not the way the government does things.
Sensible forethought and the system are not compatible.
Can you imagime someone in Washington saying, "We decided to do a trial run because we werent really sure which was the best way to do it".
That wouldn't play well on the evening news.

 

[Oldtimer]

I don;t want someone trying to manage health care that can't keep from going broke selling booze and sex in a cathouse. Mustang Ranch in NV went broke when the gov tried to run it.

I'm surprised and disappointed at you, Dun. The state of Nevada (not the US government) "tried" to run the Mustang ranch.

And you're ignoring the fact that our government already runs two very successful health insurance programs: TRICARE for active duty and retired military and MEDICARE for people over 65. Both of those consistently have satisfaction ratings from their customers much higher than most private insurance companies in the US.


I think it's because of those two government programs that medical costs aren't higher today than they are. They cover so many people that they're able to "set" the standard fees that many insurance companies use to pay claims. If it hadn't been for the Medicare Advantage programs put in place a few years ago, Medicare would be in much better financial shape. But they've eliminated several of those; hopefully, they'll cut them all out soon.

From Fox news: Conforte dealt mostly in cash and kept few records. By 1990, the IRS was fed up with his tax shenanigans and seized the ranch, putting the federal government in the unique position of running a brothel. It failed and the ranch was padlocked for the first time.

Medicare is so corrupt and over burdened with government waste I don;t look upon is as a good business model.

Seized it, yes. Ran it, no.

The IRS seized and sold it. The new owners were caught funnelling the proceeds to the original owner. The IRS seized it again and turned it over to the BLM. The BLM wants to knock down the buildings and leave the land undeveloped.

It appears the BLM sold the property instead.

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=39820


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Though the intent of this missive is humorous and it makes a worthy point — namely, mixing government and business can create more problems than it solves — it rests on a factual error. In reality, the federal government did not attempt to operate Mustang Ranch after it was seized in a bankruptcy proceeding in September 1990.

It's true that the feds had planned on keeping the business going until the brothel could be sold at auction (a scheme that became the butt of numerous jokes on late-night TV), but a U.S. judge refused to allow the bankruptcy trustee to assume the Ranch's business license. Instead, the IRS foreclosed on the property and auctioned it off a few months later.

Though various sources persist in claiming that the IRS itself ran the brothel in the interim, the available evidence suggests otherwise. Just two weeks after the government took possession of Mustang Ranch, county commissioners banned prostitution there, saying they were tired of the "circus" surrounding the case. The ban remained in place until the business reopened in December 1990 under "new" ownership (unbeknownst to officials at the time, the original owner, Joe Conforte, had repurchased the Ranch under an assumed name).

So, while it's accurate enough to say that the federal government "owned" Mustang Ranch for approximately three months in 1990, the claim that government officials tried to run the brothel and failed appears to be unfounded.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/govern ... _ranch.htm

 

[dun]

Seized it, yes. Ran it, no.

The IRS seized and sold it. The new owners were caught funnelling the proceeds to the original owner. The IRS seized it again and turned it over to the BLM. The BLM wants to knock down the buildings and leave the land undeveloped.

It appears the BLM sold the property instead.

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=39820


------------------------
Though the intent of this missive is humorous and it makes a worthy point — namely, mixing government and business can create more problems than it solves — it rests on a factual error. In reality, the federal government did not attempt to operate Mustang Ranch after it was seized in a bankruptcy proceeding in September 1990.

It's true that the feds had planned on keeping the business going until the brothel could be sold at auction (a scheme that became the butt of numerous jokes on late-night TV), but a U.S. judge refused to allow the bankruptcy trustee to assume the Ranch's business license. Instead, the IRS foreclosed on the property and auctioned it off a few months later.

Though various sources persist in claiming that the IRS itself ran the brothel in the interim, the available evidence suggests otherwise. Just two weeks after the government took possession of Mustang Ranch, county commissioners banned prostitution there, saying they were tired of the "circus" surrounding the case. The ban remained in place until the business reopened in December 1990 under "new" ownership (unbeknownst to officials at the time, the original owner, Joe Conforte, had repurchased the Ranch under an assumed name).

So, while it's accurate enough to say that the federal government "owned" Mustang Ranch for approximately three months in 1990, the claim that government officials tried to run the brothel and failed appears to be unfounded.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/govern ... _ranch.htm

Interesting! I had heard it on the news and wached a program on either the history channel od discovery or one of the ones similar that had a program on it and it was claimed they ran it. Just goes to show you can;t trust the media

 

[Frankie]

Medicare is so corrupt and over burdened with government waste I don;t look upon is as a good business model.

Business model? The big insurance companies have a great business model, I guess. If you actually get sick, they drop your coverage. The potential new government health care program won't be a for-profit business. It will be a service to citizens of the country who can't get insurance coverage.

The gov't should be wonderful at this then...they've never had a program that even broke even, let alone came close to a profit. I've been in vet hospitals Frankie...don't tell me about quality of care. The gov't might have save some bucks but that was about all.

Ha. Ha. Funny comment. First, the government is not in business to "make a profit". They're supposed to take care of their citizens. You know, fund roads, public education, flu vaccines, that sort of stuff.

Second, they have received a 15% return on TARP money repaid, so far. Plus they didn't spend anywhere ner all that was set aside for the program to start with.

I'd agree with you about VA hospitals. The care this country gives to its military veterans is shameful. They would be better off with some sort of public option insurance where they could go to their local hospitals and doctors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/busin ... payer.html

 

[Oldtimer]

Interestingly- Years ago when I was still in law enforcement- the FBI and DEA ran a large long time sting operation selling the purcursors that are used to make methamphetamine (this was before most were outlawed or heavily regulated)....They could then backtrack where they were going and who was using them- and catch them redhanded cooking and dealing meth...
They were set up like any other normal chemical company- and sold all the normal other chemicals also....During the period they ran the operation- they actually profitted quite well- and it became a major issue what they would do with these profits- because government is not set up to deal with making a profit.. :shock: ;-) :lol2:

 

[Oldtimer]

Right now- I'm waiting to see what the Final Bill/plan turns out to be before I make any pro or con judgements...I watched almost all the Senate and House committee hearings on the current bills- and I know many of things being circulated about them later were absolute falsehoods...The lobbyiests from all sides of the issue have spent more money on this- than any other issue in the history of the country...And most those lobbyiests are not above falsehoods or misleading people if it means more profit in their industrys pocketbook....

I do know one thing...Something has to be done about rising health care/health care insurance costs or most farmer/ranchers won't be able to afford insurance anymore..
When insurances costs have risen over the last few years by an average 9-10% per year--and is being projected to be as much as 15% in a few years- I know of few farmers and ranchers who's products and incomes have increased correspondingly....

 

[TexasBred]

OT, don't listen to hearings....read the bill and form an educated opinion......it's available online.

 

[Oldtimer]

OT, don't listen to hearings....read the bill and form an educated opinion......it's available online.

Which one :???: There are two they held hearings on- House 3200 & the Senate HELP bill- and one that has just been released- the Baucus Bill....

I believe the final bill will be a comingling of parts of all three....

The good thing about listening to the hearings is you get the intent behind each section- and the opposing beliefs on the intent-- and a better understanding of what it will and will not do- and why it is or is not necessary....

 

[TexasBred]

Medicare is so corrupt and over burdened with government waste I don;t look upon is as a good business model
Business model? The big insurance companies have a great business model, I guess. If you actually get sick, they drop your coverage. The potential new government health care program won't be a for-profit business. It will be a service to citizens of the country who can't get insurance coverage.[/quote]

The gov't should be wonderful at this then...they've never had a program that even broke even, let alone came close to a profit. I've been in vet hospitals Frankie...don't tell me about quality of care. The gov't might have save some bucks but that was about all.[/quote]

Ha. Ha. Funny comment. First, the government is not in business to "make a profit". They're supposed to take care of their citizens. You know, fund roads, public education, flu vaccines, that sort of stuff.

Second, they have received a 15% return on TARP money repaid, so far. Plus they didn't spend anywhere ner all that was set aside for the program to start with.

I'd agree with you about VA hospitals. The care this country gives to its military veterans is shameful. They would be better off with some sort of public option insurance where they could go to their local hospitals and doctors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/busin ... payer.html[/quote]

No a lot of the TARP money went out....it was the darned "stimulus" that hasn't been spent....not that it matters anyway...Gov't should at least be able to come up with something that will break even. You say they are not for profit yet in next sentence say the have received a 15% return on TARP money repaid. Now that is as bad as credit card rates if it's true. I was thinking it was suppose to be around 5%. Should have been free to those that were forced to take it in order not to embarass the others that did take it.

 

[Frankie]

No a lot of the TARP money went out....it was the darned "stimulus" that hasn't been spent....not that it matters anyway...Gov't should at least be able to come up with something that will break even. You say they are not for profit yet in next sentence say the have received a 15% return on TARP money repaid. Now that is as bad as credit card rates if it's true. I was thinking it was suppose to be around 5%. Should have been free to those that were forced to take it in order not to embarass the others that did take it.

All I can find says $240 billion TARP money went out. $700 billion was set aside. So less than half was spent (unless I'm missing something). This wasn't a 15% loan. The government bought shares and warrants in the banks. By the time the banks bought them back, they had increased in value. They increased in value because the government loans stabilized the banks. But don't worry about the government making a profit; there are still $billions of TARP money that hasn't been paid back.

Oklahoma was supposed to get $2.6 billion in stimulus funds. It comes from a variety of sources. ODOT got the most and 85% of that has already been obligated to projects.

 

[TexasBred]

Frankie...what happened to all the "Toxic Assets" that were suppose to be cleared off the books by the tarp money??? They haven't been sold....they dont' just disappear....maybe some more "CRAP" bookkeeping by the bankers and the USG.

 

[Frankie]

Right now- I'm waiting to see what the Final Bill/plan turns out to be before I make any pro or con judgements...I watched almost all the Senate and House committee hearings on the current bills- and I know many of things being circulated about them later were absolute falsehoods...The lobbyiests from all sides of the issue have spent more money on this- than any other issue in the history of the country...And most those lobbyiests are not above falsehoods or misleading people if it means more profit in their industrys pocketbook....

I do know one thing...Something has to be done about rising health care/health care insurance costs or most farmer/ranchers won't be able to afford insurance anymore..
When insurances costs have risen over the last few years by an average 9-10% per year--and is being projected to be as much as 15% in a few years- I know of few farmers and ranchers who's products and incomes have increased correspondingly....

I can't support MAX's bill. Mandating insurance coverge for everyone without offering an alternative (public option) is just more money in the pockets of the insurance companies. It does nothing to cut or slow down the costs of medical care.

 

[Frankie]

Frankie...what happened to all the "Toxic Assets" that were suppose to be cleared off the books by the tarp money??? They haven't been sold....they dont' just disappear....maybe some more "CRAP" bookkeeping by the bankers and the USG.

I think they're still there, but as home values start back up, maybe they won't be quite so "toxic".

 

[TexasBred]

Frankie...what happened to all the "Toxic Assets" that were suppose to be cleared off the books by the tarp money??? They haven't been sold....they dont' just disappear....maybe some more "CRAP" bookkeeping by the bankers and the USG.

I think they're still there, but as home values start back up, maybe they won't be quite so "toxic".

I don't know Frankie...some of those instruments were so far gone they could never be worth book value. Like when the S&L's down here were flipping condos a half dozen times a day back in the '80's. A 250,000 condo at 8 am would be worth 750,000 by the end of the day....same little crappy piece of property....put a lot of good folks out of work, in teh poor house and very few ever spent a night in jail or prison.

 

[aplusmnt]

Medicade is broke, Medicare is broke. My wife does home health care and most of her patients are on one of the two. They are cutting the things they cover in record numbers. This is why the elderly are rising up they know the cuts are coming because they have already came to them.

One example of Gov ran health care, My wife has patient on CPAP machine when he sleeps at night, Medicare says he has to use it x amount of hours a night to keep it and be paid for. Well the man has other sleeping problems and only sleeps a few hours a night but loves the machine and needs it. But because the card reports he is not using it long enough my wife has to repo the machine from the man. The kicker is the used machine is worth very little to resale (use to you could not even sale them used) so the man gets a machine worth a couple hundred taken away that he needs and wants. Here is the kicker he will get a new machine because all he has to do is go have the test done again that cost THOUSANDS to medicare and then he will have to go to a new provider and get a new machine. He can not get one from my wifes company this time since under them it was taken away. So Medicare saves a few hundred but dishes out maybe $5,000.00 in test and new machine to the guy.

There are so many ways the services are being cut already in Medicare and they say more will come if we get social health policy.

The proof is in the pudding it is a fact the Government has already rationed health care to those they currently provide for, what kind of person would believe they will not do it with any new polices for the rest of us.

Funny they want cut Medicare to the elderly to pay for coverage of the young ones. The elderly have paid their dues and taxes let the younger ones pay theirs!