Hard Pill to Swallow

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Future value of what they can produce should figure in.
How would you figure that? As long as the cows (and calves that might be lost) get replaced with like cows, I can see adding the costs involved in replacing them... but figuring any future values beyond this years calves IF they were lost is a stretch.
 
How would you figure that? As long as the cows (and calves that might be lost) get replaced with like cows, I can see adding the costs involved in replacing them... but figuring any future values beyond this years calves IF they were lost is a stretch.
So what if they cant be replaced with like cows. He knows what he had. He might not be able to buy back as good as them. I still say a cow has value beyond what she was worth today.
 
Todays value x 3. When a "dog" kills livestock, the "dogs owner" pays 3 x the value of that animal.
 
So what if they cant be replaced with like cows. He knows what he had. He might not be able to buy back as good as them. I still say a cow has value beyond what she was worth today.
Measure of damages is what the cows were worth plus cost of dealing with orphan calves if cow is dead and calf still alive. If those orphan calves will be worth less at sale time, then that is also a component of the damages. Cows are going to get market value. If you want more than market value then have to prove the added value in some way. Using the income approach on top of market value is double dipping damages. The market value will reflect the expected future income less future expenses and reduced to net present value. So, market value is what is generally the first and foremost way to figure damages. Any added value of damages needs to be proven. The trick is to find ways to show the additional damages.
 
So what if they cant be replaced with like cows. He knows what he had. He might not be able to buy back as good as them. I still say a cow has value beyond what she was worth today.
Are they commercial cows? Never seen a commercial cow that can't be replaced, and better or worse I suspect it will average out.
 
Are they commercial cows? Never seen a commercial cow that can't be replaced, and better or worse I suspect it will average out.
They can be replaced, but it is often hard to find suitable replacement that equal what you have. Especially if it's a herd that retains their own replacements and has selected for their management.
 
It's not unlike other property damage. You might have had an older car that was really suited to your uses and blue book value is $5000. Someone hits it and it gets totaled, and all you get is $5000 from insurance to go find another buggy, but you can't find another quite like it, or maybe you do find one, but it hasn't been maintained quite as well or needs some other work, etc. Now if your vehicle was a pickup with a flatbed and had an iron front bumper, you have some modifications that you can show an enhanced value. Are cows that can run on the Red Desert range special or can you find similar cows at the local auction barn that have run in similar range conditions? You didn't want to sell your cows, but if you had, they would have sold by the head or pound and there is an established local market.

What you paid for these cows isn't relevant to their current value unless you paid a premium for them due to some unique attribute and could sell them for some similar premium. That question on the claim form may not be relevant.
 
I have been on the UP side from an oil and gas stand point. Our company would look at the auction barn and say this is the low side and then pull some cattle for sale private treaty online and say this is the high side, just as a reference if we had to make an offer. If some one just sends in some outrageous numbers with no justification it got denied. If you bring me a quote that says these cows are comparable and I'm going to take your check and buy these it was a big help. If you say that animal was a show cow and had future revenue you better bring pictures, receipts from revenue, insurance policy, advertisements, etc on them.

It's all about how you frame it. If you say I can't buy my cows and have to raise them bring the costs to raise one and revenue lost until the replacement is in production.

Be sure you account for replacing the them being bred and even list time and costs associated with finding and handling the dead cattle. If you had to Dr them or shoot them or bury them, get invoices for all of it.

Never lie or get outrageous but definitely get what you are deserved.

I would fill out some of the basic info on their form like name, property id, maybe date, etc but for values and dollars I would put... see attached pages... to control that info.

Some times companies write checks for this stuff but some times it goes to their insurance. In my case, most of the time I just needed the correct info to justify the cost, to cover me, as it went up the chain. As long as it was with in reason, how much was spent didn't really matter to me.
 
It's not unlike other property damage. You might have had an older car that was really suited to your uses and blue book value is $5000. Someone hits it and it gets totaled, and all you get is $5000 from insurance to go find another buggy, but you can't find another quite like it, or maybe you do find one, but it hasn't been maintained quite as well or needs some other work, etc. Now if your vehicle was a pickup with a flatbed and had an iron front bumper, you have some modifications that you can show an enhanced value. Are cows that can run on the Red Desert range special or can you find similar cows at the local auction barn that have run in similar range conditions? You didn't want to sell your cows, but if you had, they would have sold by the head or pound and there is an established local market.

What you paid for these cows isn't relevant to their current value unless you paid a premium for them due to some unique attribute and could sell them for some similar premium. That question on the claim form may not be relevant.
@CowboyRam Want to sell them to me? And then I can sell them back at a premium, with a back dated receipt maybe 3 months before the accident?

LOL... Just kidding.
 
How do you set a price on something that is not for sale? These cattle did not get hit by the train on the way to the sale!
 
The thing of the RR's negligence of maintaining the fencing comes into play here. Negligence cost in any case. Lots of costs involved in this. All the time and mileage looking for cows. Disposing of the cows. Hours and miles spent trying to buy like kind cows back. Your stress and mental fatigue of going through this. Dont give your cows away.
 
I'd buy top tier commercial replacements hvy bred, delivered. go show them the receipt. show them the pics of the dead ones.

say you'd like 100/hd extra for all your troubles and the fence fixed.

i think that'd be pretty fair.
 
I'd buy top tier commercial replacements hvy bred, delivered. go show them the receipt. show them the pics of the dead ones.

say you'd like 100/hd extra for all your troubles and the fence fixed.

i think that'd be pretty fair.
Sure, get them to throw in a new pick-up and a barbeque... and a cooler full of top shelve while you're at it too.
 
From what people here say is they pay. They don't fight it. They certainly can't afford to have their own crew of fence builder (RR union). So they would have to contract building new fence. On how many thousand miles? Contract fence at $4 or $5 a foot. They know they are liable and pay. If you do get a lawyer be sure to include any lawyer fees in your settlement. Personally I would just ask for $4000-$5,000 per cow. And from what people here have told me they will just pay up.
 
Sure, get them to throw in a new pick-up and a barbeque... and a cooler full of top shelve while you're at it too.
what do you think would is unreasonable with that?

A top tier replacement isn't much more than a bred cow at the stock yard. I think 100/hd for your time in this would be pretty fair. add to that they should fix the fence if its up to them to keep it maintained.
 
From what people here say is they pay. They don't fight it. They certainly can't afford to have their own crew of fence builder (RR union). So they would have to contract building new fence. On how many thousand miles? Contract fence at $4 or $5 a foot. They know they are liable and pay. If you do get a lawyer be sure to include any lawyer fees in your settlement. Personally I would just ask for $4000-$5,000 per cow. And from what people here have told me they will just pay up.
I don't think 4K per head would be outrageous. 5K would be getting there. That's considering they are average, run-of-the-mill cows. Replacement including cost of replacement. And the missing, damaged, dead calves or any that you can sell/raise and the costs of that end would have to be figured differently... but with the price of weaned calves it might hit close to what the cows are worth.

@CowboyRam I don't remember you mentioning if there were any calves left orphaned or whether the total number included calves that left a mother cow without.
 

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