Hairy Udder ?

[Ebenezer]

How often do you see cows with too much milk vs. not enough milk?

All the time. They are in sale catalogs or in the kill pen at the stockyard because they could not muster up enough energy to breed back. Milk production is an expense. High MM EPDs are one of the lowest IQ fads in a long time. Burning the candle at both ends.

 

[76 Bar]

Milk production is an expense.

Which is to say pardon the expression, there's no free lunch. 8)

 

[Stocker Steve]

We used to see a few with not enough milk. Could be because we bought a lot of wf sales barn cows ?

After using "improved" bulls we now see about 15% of the retained heifers having too much milk. They raise really nice calves but are slow breeders... The current thinking is we need to move our calving date back, so the cows calve in better condition and thus have a quicker breed back.

 

[Hereford2]

That's interesting, about the cow having lots of milk, and being slow to breed back..? I guess I'm fortunate, I have a cow, she's had 3 calves 9 to 10 months apart on every calf, we don't AI either. And she has a LOT of milk.....

 

[Nesikep]

We used to see a few with not enough milk. Could be because we bought a lot of wf sales barn cows ?

After using "improved" bulls we now see about 15% of the retained heifers having too much milk. They raise really nice calves but are slow breeders... The current thinking is we need to move our calving date back, so the cows calve in better condition and thus have a quicker breed back.

I found if you have high milking cows, KEEP THE BULL WITH THEM... don't wait until they've been milking for 3 months to expose them after they've been pulled down.. of course a good mineral program is probably more critical with higher performing cattle

 

[Nesikep]

Fry had a series of explanatory pics on his website but either they've been removed or I'm too inept to find them.

http://www.bovineengineering.com/edu.html

Honestly, that sounds like a bunch of pseudoscientific old wives tales, some with a bit of correlation of course.
So why aren't Bonsmara cattle ever seen up in the north? Being where I am, I am not sure I'd take too many breeding tips from someone who places so much focus on heat tolerance. No doubt they're well adapted to their area though.

 

[Ebenezer]

Fry had a series of explanatory pics on his website but either they've been removed or I'm too inept to find them.

http://www.bovineengineering.com/edu.html

Honestly, that sounds like a bunch of pseudoscientific old wives tales, some with a bit of correlation of course.
So why aren't Bonsmara cattle ever seen up in the north? Being where I am, I am not sure I'd take too many breeding tips from someone who places so much focus on heat tolerance. No doubt they're well adapted to their area though.

Bonsma covered the environments in his writings and study. You do not need heat tolerant cattle so you do not need those attributes. You do want functional cattle and part of Bonsma's writings are applicable. I prefer Bonsma's interpretation of himself rather than Fry's filter. I have seen Fry selected cattle and they were not anything like Bonsma selections. Fry took a part and made it the whole. Just my opinion.

 

[76 Bar]

I concur with Ebenezer. Fry jumped on the bandwagon & put his own spin on the master's. That said, unless you're long in the tooth precious few are aware of Bonsma & his philosophy. Same goes for savvy old-timer producers who knew sans scientific evidence how to breed cost efficient livestock that stood the test of time.

 

[Redgully]

Fry had a series of explanatory pics on his website but either they've been removed or I'm too inept to find them.

http://www.bovineengineering.com/edu.html

Honestly, that sounds like a bunch of pseudoscientific old wives tales, some with a bit of correlation of course.
So why aren't Bonsmara cattle ever seen up in the north? Being where I am, I am not sure I'd take too many breeding tips from someone who places so much focus on heat tolerance. No doubt they're well adapted to their area though.

Heading into supergene territory. Those theories destroyed many a good herd in Australia and many still use it as a bible to their selection of breeding animals today.

Well look what i just found, an actual thread on CT about it, gets a little heated too!
https://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46611

 

[Nesikep]

http://www.bovineengineering.com/edu.html

Honestly, that sounds like a bunch of pseudoscientific old wives tales, some with a bit of correlation of course.
So why aren't Bonsmara cattle ever seen up in the north? Being where I am, I am not sure I'd take too many breeding tips from someone who places so much focus on heat tolerance. No doubt they're well adapted to their area though.

Heading into supergene territory. Those theories destroyed many a good herd in Australia and many still use it as a bible to their selection of breeding animals today.

Well look what i just found, an actual thread on CT about it, gets a little heated too!
https://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46611

gonna take me some time to read it, was a year before I got on CT

 

[Nesikep]

http://www.bovineengineering.com/edu.html

Honestly, that sounds like a bunch of pseudoscientific old wives tales, some with a bit of correlation of course.
So why aren't Bonsmara cattle ever seen up in the north? Being where I am, I am not sure I'd take too many breeding tips from someone who places so much focus on heat tolerance. No doubt they're well adapted to their area though.

Heading into supergene territory. Those theories destroyed many a good herd in Australia and many still use it as a bible to their selection of breeding animals today.

Well look what i just found, an actual thread on CT about it, gets a little heated too!
https://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46611

I finally read the whole thread.. I found everyone was quite in agreement until the "Rebeef" fellow came along

What I gathered from this is to grade high on the Supergene system, just starve your cows and they'll score well

 

[Redgully]

Honestly, that sounds like a bunch of pseudoscientific old wives tales, some with a bit of correlation of course.
So why aren't Bonsmara cattle ever seen up in the north? Being where I am, I am not sure I'd take too many breeding tips from someone who places so much focus on heat tolerance. No doubt they're well adapted to their area though.

Heading into supergene territory. Those theories destroyed many a good herd in Australia and many still use it as a bible to their selection of breeding animals today.

Well look what i just found, an actual thread on CT about it, gets a little heated too!
https://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46611

I finally read the whole thread.. I found everyone was quite in agreement until the "Rebeef" fellow came along

What I gathered from this is to grade high on the Supergene system, just starve your cows and they'll score well

Yeah the thread really took a twist towards the end. I think any wagyu breeders would have would have had the ultimate herds! So my experience with all this. The bull mentioned as being imported and ruining PCs herd is not entirely accurate. His name was Hallmarks Power Walker and he was imported from the U.S. he had some really nice progeny. I came across a straw of him a couple of years ago and bred a fairly nice heifer from him. But i know a couple of people who knew PC and didn't think much of him or his ideas. I also know a red poll breeder who went down the supergene path and made a mess of his herd and some of his bulls he sold from that selection gave the breed a really bad name. Really tight in the pins and caused terrible calving problems.

 

[Nesikep]

I'm going to continue breeding what I like looking at!

 

[BrazosBottomHand]

If we ever had a heifer ( we only ran stockers) with too much hair on her lady parts, he would grunt "hormone problems" . Thats what i know.
Ur Welcome

 

[Ebenezer]

If we ever had a heifer ( we only ran stockers) with too much hair on her lady parts, he would grunt "hormone problems" . Thats what i know.
Ur Welcome

Ur Right.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Seems like they are often late calvers.