Had a round with a bull today.

[50/50Farms]

I suspect it's the weather. My horse wheeled around and tried to half heartly double barrel me a few days ago.

Other than fear or testing boundaries, I give every horse one or two sorta freebies you might call it when it comes to endangering me significantly. After that, I know plenty of folks who take the problem ones and they're welcome to have 'em, because calm horses are cheaper than hospital bills and I don't like laying down.

 

[greybeard]

Deter? It would certainly pizz him off and possibly make him more aggressive.

How about a hotshot? Would it deter him?

A hotshot...One on one, head to head on open ground with an aggressive bull?
No.
But lets think about what is actually going to happen..
IF, he's headed your way, you 'might' get one pulse into the bull before he runs you over. His moving mass is so great, he will barely feel it and for such a tiny amount of time, he won't even begin to slow down or turn away. Inertial mass. Momentum. What does that mean? If the cattle prod puts out 5000V that is theoretically 5000Joules of energy, but it's applied strictly between the 2 points on the end of the cattle prod (electrodes) usually about an inch apart from each other.

(why isn't an electrified fence that has 5000V advertised as 5000 joules of energy? Because the manufacturers have to take into account the length of the charged wire, the 'average point of contact' and the distance from an average point of contact back to the energizer and it's ground rod(s). (the shock doesn't actually take place until the pulse makes it back to the negative terminal within the energizer. This seems instantaneous to us, only because the electrons are traveling at near light speed)

But, back to the irritated bull that just got hit with 5000-5600 volt pulse from the hotshot.. We think of joules as an expression of electrical energy but it is also an expression of all other kinds of kinetic energy, and that hotshot pulse pales in comparison to the energy in that moving mass of angry bull and someone much smarter than I actually went to the trouble to calculate how much energy he is ready to unleash.

The formula for the kinetic energy of a non-rotating object is: Eᵏ=1/2mv².
Energy (joules) is equal to 1/2 of the mass of an object (in kilograms) multiplied by Velocity (speed) in meters per second squared.
If a bull weighs 1700 lbs, that gets converted to 771kilograms for mass.

It was determined, that the average bull runs at about 15mph which gets converted to 24 kilometers/hr but that has to be converted to meters/second.
Soooo, 24 Km changes to 24000 meters and divide that by 3600 (seconds) and you get 6.7.

plug all that in and you have:
Kinetic energy = .5 x 771 x 6.7² = 17,111 joules of raw mad energy coming at you and your measly little stick of electrons.

 

[50/50Farms]

We had a simmental bull that would headbutt the truck and could only be moved off from such a stand if I cracked a bull whip. He took a ride.

We had another fighter, and this makes for a good story:
I reckon I was 16 or 17, we had a simm-brangus homegrown bull that made fine calves and was a big old boy, but he never favored corrals and did his best to avoid them. The main body of the herd could be made to lead by truck across any pasture on one side of the road with a drag man to one side of the road and cross and reset themselves to continue on the other side in the same fashion. We were taking them all in to worm, vaccinate, and sort off selling calves one year when this bull decided to split. He ran out of the open pasture, crossed the creek, and holed up in the woods. I was sent after him. Had I even the time to fetch up a smaller vehicle or saddle a horse, it would have been pointless because the woods were too thick for either. Luckily, the leaf litter and the dirt made him easy to track and I crossed the creek on foot and tracked him. I finally bottomed out his track as I broke out of the thicket and I met him there. As I got out of the thick stuff, I looked up. There he was, standing on the cut bank of the creek, in this little clearing no bigger than 15 yards either way. He looked at the creek below him and the drop and he turned around towards me and set himself. All I could say to myself was "Aw, hell, you've really done it this time. Reckon you're gonna have a hell of a go-round with this (insert expletive for a man who holds congress with a mother)"

He went to move towards me and there was no way I could go back fast enough, so I went forward, and this bull who had known me all his life freaked out. He ran and pitched over sideways over that creekbank and fell into that water, thrashed out to other side and busted up a fence I had just fixed last week.

I went looking for him again, and he was standing in the garden beside the barn wondering what next to do. I went and opened the nearest gate and tried to push him in. He made to fight again so I picked up a few river rocks and tapped him on the butt with them but he wouldn't go. I finally picked up a good one, aimed, summed up my baseball experience and crow-hopped and put it right at the base of the scrotum. He let himself back in to the pasture and was sold within a month.

I don't know what the moral of the story is, other than getting anything by the cajones works.

 

[Brute 23]

Juking around and taking chances with a bull is a young man's game. I'll do it, being young, but I understand KyHills not wanting to because I believe he's a little bit older than you or me. I'm younger still than you. We get hurt, it's a few weeks or maybe a month or so. An older man gets hurt, it's can be a few months if not more. I fractured part of my leg in 2018 or thereabouts in a motorcycle accident and was turkey hunting within a month.

No doubt but I didn't get that impression. Maybe I misunderstood.

 

[chaded]

I suspect a bull (or cow for that matter) can kill a man, young or old.

 

[Redgully]

Ive only ever had one bull challenge me. An 18month old Murray grey. He'd never been handled and my sister wanted to borrow him. I decided to halter break him so he could be handled easier. I was about 20 at the time. Well lets just say he didn't think much of the idea and turned on me, i was pretty quick back then so got out his way and as he came back at me with his head down i gave him a bloody good kick in the nose, it startled him and he became a mouse. After that i could hold his ear and lead him anywhere and he was one of the best bulls i ever had. I was very inexperienced back then and i look back now and think that could have ended really badly for me.

 

[hurleyjd]

I suspect a bull (or cow for that matter) can kill a man, young or old.

Several years ago my retired school teacher was killed by a bull. He had the bull in the lot over night.. Before Church he went out to turn the bull out. He opened the gate and was behind the gate and the bull turned and attacked him and killed him.

 

[gcreekrch]

People keep bulls too gentle and forget to keep their dominance……..

 

[JJColvin]

That bull would be on the cull list in my world. Always been a bit unpredictable and a bluffing contest is a hard NO. You think that fiberglass stick is going to do anything if he decides he's not bluffing?

Wouldn't go through the gate where he's at without packing my 45. Too old to run and too feeble to climb fences.

 

[CowboyRam]

Dad had a neighbor that had a couple Scottish Highlander bulls they couldn't do anything with so they called him to come rope them. They would give him a case of beer if he caught them with a clean horn catch. Well he caught them, and it was a good thing he had a good horse; those bulls would come up the rope. He jerked them into their trailer, and said they are your problem now. I suppose they got hauled to the sale, I don't really know. They had one those nice horse trailers with the padding, and smoked glass windows. When they got done the padding was all ripped up, and no more glass windows.

 

[Stonewall Joe]

Our current bulls are home raised pretty well docile and easy going, but one a coming 3 year old commercial Angus has always been a bit unpredictable. This morning it was still below freezing and at the time was around 20 degrees. Had let the group of cows and calves to eat and that bull is in with that group. Normally he doesn't cause much commotion, but this time he whipped around towards me bellering and holding his tongue out. I was in a position where I could get a cow between us and give me a break to get back to the barn. I got a fiberglass sorting stick, and went back out, to get him on out thinking he would go on. It turned into a bluff fest. He was whirling around constantly and taking a few steps toward me raising and lowering his head, tongue out and bellering still.
I was able to back him out, but not very happy if that continues or escalates.
My wife wondered if it was weather related someway. The other bulls one a year older and another a year younger in a different field acted the very same calm and unconcerned way as they always do,

time for him to take a trip to the city

 

[Ky hills]

My philosophy has always been to have gentle cattle, it was one of the most important traits to most people including myself. I started out working with a herd of registered Charolais, in keeping several bulls both herd and weaned - yearling, around about all times, I've had to deal with a lot of bulls, since I was young and I will tolerate them being bulls up to a point, I found a lot young bulls will try to test you, but then after they are turned out with cows they are generally not a problem at all. I would cull any bull though if they seemed often and was verily aggressive as I did not want to sell a bull to someone else that I didn't particularly have a decent level of confidence in.
After I ended my run with registered cattle, I've kept the same thought process with selecting and handling bulls. They are individuals and no matter how much we think we know them they can turn, but even though I know that I do tend to get too relaxed a lot of times around them sometimes.
Once bought an 18 month old Hereford bull that was pretty feisty he would come running and slinging his head. Backed him up a time or two with I stick and after being out with cows he was fine. He and several others would put on quite a show though when playing with a roll of hay.
Simmental bull I bought a couple years ago, fooled me. When we went to look at him he seemed fine but the owner was new to cattle and visibly afraid. A few days after getting that bull home he was very aggressive and I don't take anything for granted around him. He got hurt and it was probably a blessing in disguise to get him off the place before he hurt somebody. He was dangerous to load.
The history of the bull in my original post was that he seemed like he was calm and no red flags as a weaned calf, until some of the tenants kids that lived in the house on that property where we had our bulls told us that they had been throwing rocks and other thing at the bulls. The other bulls didn't show any change but that one became high headed and flighty, over a long time he seemed to calm back down but had a bit of an edge to him. The don't know if that's what started him or not but seemed like he changed at that time. I wasn't overly concerned with him but didn't want to get him hemmed up or to be out in the middle of the field with nowhere to go either. I'd kind of had an encounter with him the first year he was with heifers, in the field where he ran towards me bellering but stopped well before me.
Then he did a similar thing last summer when I got off the tractor to check on something here he come but again he stopped and went on by.
Then with that the other day, I thought I'd get some thoughts from y'all. I had been thinking he needed to go, but then sometimes I second guess my self and think I might be too particular, but at my age and health I dont want to take too many chances and sure don't want my wife to get hurt as she works with them too.
We've had a neighbor get seriously injured by a cow, and know of someone else that was killed by one.

 

[Hogfarmer10]

I have a question. Do y'all really have more "trouble" with bulls than your cows/heifers? I just ask because we've always had more trouble with momma cows than anything- in regards to aggressiveness, at least. And now we've pretty much got those cattle sold off. Honestly, the only issues I've had with bulls, 1 was completely my fault and my other issue is when I managed a neighboring farm that ran angus, they were the "kickingest" cattle I've ever seen and you definitely did not corner the bull, but he was more destructive than aggressive.

 

[50/50Farms]

I have a question. Do y'all really have more "trouble" with bulls than your cows/heifers? I just ask because we've always had more trouble with momma cows than anything- in regards to aggressiveness, at least.

Not really, in particular, but the gentle ones don't make for as good of stories and so everyone talks about the unruly ones when these things get discussed.

 

[Ky hills]

I have a question. Do y'all really have more "trouble" with bulls than your cows/heifers? I just ask because we've always had more trouble with momma cows than anything- in regards to aggressiveness, at least. And now we've pretty much got those cattle sold off. Honestly, the only issues I've had with bulls, 1 was completely my fault and my other issue is when I managed a neighboring farm that ran angus, they were the "kickingest" cattle I've ever seen and you definitely did not corner the bull, but he was more destructive than aggressive.

Actually, I've found cows to be problematic than bulls too,
I agree Angus are the kickingest cattle that I've ever seen too. Other breeds have individuals that can rival them but in my experience a lot of Angus are very prone to kick. The kicking factor was why my parents pushed me toward any other breed when I was starting out.

 

[50/50Farms]

Cows are a lot snakier in my opinion, but if we're talking about just sheer volume of trouble, scared calves 6 months old and up have given me the best freakouts.

 

[TCRanch]

I have a question. Do y'all really have more "trouble" with bulls than your cows/heifers? I just ask because we've always had more trouble with momma cows than anything- in regards to aggressiveness, at least. And now we've pretty much got those cattle sold off. Honestly, the only issues I've had with bulls, 1 was completely my fault and my other issue is when I managed a neighboring farm that ran angus, they were the "kickingest" cattle I've ever seen and you definitely did not corner the bull, but he was more destructive than aggressive.

Not here. Docility is paramount, primarily because I'm generally the only around them, moving them, working them, loading them, etc. I've had bulls that will let me dig out sticks between their toes, checking for foot rot in the pasture, and I lanced an abscess on a bulls' head while standing in the back of my Polaris with only a bowl of cubes to keep him occupied. But they're not pets, they need to respect my boundaries and I never let my guard down.

Pretty much the same with my cows. If they have attitude, they're gone. I know the ones that get a little testy right after they calve, and I give them extra time (and preferably work their newborn when they're not looking).

 

[SBMF 2015]

I suspect a bull (or cow for that matter) can kill a man, young or old.

7 Seconds. The vet told me he watched an 1,100lb str knock down a older man, slid him across the concrete floor to the concrete barn wall. Broken ribs, punctured lung, fractured pelvis.

I have always said with the number of cattle I interact with each year "its not a matter of if I get hurt, its when and how bad"

 

[Brute 23]

I went to feed the new bull this morning and took my phone. I was hoping to get a good video of him throwing his head and bucking knocking the hay around and just being ignorant in general. He was a perfect angel with the camera rolling... aggravating.

 

[Bestoutwest]

I do agree with this. Few years ago, we were in the bull pasture and it was a wet, muddy, snowy mess. Mr TC's boots were caked, and he started stomping his boots to knock off residual mud and scrape off the rest on a rock, essentially "pawing". One of the bulls took that as a direct challenge or threat - and responded in kind, including lowering and shaking his head. Plus, he's rarely around the bulls, so they're not really used to him & boundaries haven't been established.

But in KY hills case, "always been unpredictable" is the operative phrase.

I had a bull that my wife fed while I was on foot surgery rest. I told her to never pat him on the head. What did she do the whole dang time? Yep, patted him on the head. Fast forward about 6 months, and I'm walking ok, but not running. I bent down to pick something up and he took that as a challenge. Bluffed me pretty good, and scared the stuff out of her. She doesn't pet any of them now.