"Grass Only" defined?

[Arkieman]

"Grass Only" cattle was referred to on another thread. I'm "assuming" (yes, I know what that makes me :lol: ) you mean grass/hay ONLY - YEAR ROUND. Is that correct? NO protein supplements (lick tubs, CSM, grain, etc)? Please define

Thanks

 

[dieselbeef]

i just read a paper on this. the short story is ''nothing not supplied by the forage''. i took that to mean nuthin but grass but forage could be many things. grass finished is different too. thats only 60 days prior to butchering i believe

 

[Arkieman]

I'm not talking about finishing. I'm talking about cows raising calves and making it year round on nothing but Grass/Hay. Is that what people are talking about when they say "cattle farmers need the type animals that will make it on grass only"?

 

[dun]

I'm not talking about finishing. I'm talking about cows raising calves and making it year round on nothing but Grass/Hay. Is that what people are talking about when they say "cattle farmers need the type animals that will make it on grass only"?

That's what I mean when I say it. Minerals, water, grass or hay.

 

[Arkieman]

Thanks Dun - I don't believe mine would look too good right now if I wasn't supplementing a little CSM/Gluten. I know the calves pull 'em down. I guess to maximize use of grass it would be better to calve in Spring, huh? Hopefully, these will come off a little sooner that the Spring-calving crowd and generate a little better price....

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I'm not talking about finishing. I'm talking about cows raising calves and making it year round on nothing but Grass/Hay. Is that what people are talking about when they say

• >>>"cattle farmers <<<<

need the type animals that will make it on grass only"?

grass farmer's ...which is what we are in a sence. id hate to think we are tote'in that handle for any other reason. or that i spent all that money year 's ago on land to supply em with it

 

[Caustic Burno]

Thanks Dun - I don't believe mine would look too good right now if I wasn't supplementing a little CSM/Gluten. I know the calves pull 'em down. I guess to maximize use of grass it would be better to calve in Spring, huh? Hopefully, these will come off a little sooner that the Spring-calving crowd and generate a little better price....

If you have wet cows that can not maintain a 5 BCS nursing on hay you need better cows not grass.
The cattle here have to perform on my grass if the cow can not maintain BCS and raise the calf on my grass and hay I am changing the cow not the grass.
I actually like fall calves better as they fetch more nickels as everyone has spring calves.
The downside is you have to put up more hay as your feed requirements go up.
Another downside to wet cows is you might have to supplement protien if you have really poor hay, but it would have to be some crappy hay, more filler than anything else.
To many of today's cattlemen have bought into the Tractor Supply mentality of I have to feed my cow.
The only one making your money is TSC.

 

[dun]

CB's changing cows instead of grass brought to mind a stray thought I had the other day. I get concerned because our cows get fat over the winter eating pretty crappy hay. It makes me somewhat concerned about possible calving problems because of them being fat, haven;t had the problem but I can;t help thinking about it. When we had the last ice storm and the cows are laying areound on the ice with a 1/2 inch of ice coating their backs and they aren;t steaming and the ice isn;t melting it makes me think that all that fat can be a pretty good thing. I think we'll just keep selecting for the easy keepers that raise good calves instead of worrying about the fat.

 

[Caustic Burno]

CB's changing cows instead of grass brought to mind a stray thought I had the other day. I get concerned because our cows get fat over the winter eating pretty crappy hay. It makes me somewhat concerned about possible calving problems because of them being fat, haven;t had the problem but I can;t help thinking about it. When we had the last ice storm and the cows are laying areound on the ice with a 1/2 inch of ice coating their backs and they aren;t steaming and the ice isn;t melting it makes me think that all that fat can be a pretty good thing. I think we'll just keep selecting for the easy keepers that raise good calves instead of worrying about the fat.

I totally agree we don't have the bad weather that you do by any means, I also worry about the same thing and all these girls have is hay and winter pasture. If I could not find easy keepers, I would run Longhorn's and a Brangus bull before I went to feeding out of a sack . At least you would have a cow that could survive on barb wire and briars and a maketable calf.

 

[Arkieman]

Thanks for the input guys. Out of the 3 heifers that have calved so far (and they calved w/i a week of each other), I have one that looks considerably worse than the other two. Up until calving, her BCS was right in line with the others. Her calf is a tad bigger than the other 2, but not much.

Should some special consideration be given to a heifer or should she be on the cull list as a "poor doer"?

 

[MikeC]

I'm not talking about finishing. I'm talking about cows raising calves and making it year round on nothing but Grass/Hay. Is that what people are talking about when they say "cattle farmers need the type animals that will make it on grass only"?

Yes, but there is very little hay around here that is quality enough to sustain cattle alone. The inputs in fertilizer, etc. in hay has been known at times to be costlier than feeding a supplement along with the hay.

You cannot balance a cows ration if you don't know the quality of your hay either.

You have to do what meets your particular situation. Don't get in to the frame of mind that you're gonna feed hay only until you know what the quality of the hay is. It's easier to keep condition on a momma cow than it is to bring her back up from skin and bones.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I'm not talking about finishing. I'm talking about cows raising calves and making it year round on nothing but Grass/Hay. Is that what people are talking about when they say "cattle farmers need the type animals that will make it on grass only"?

Yes, but there is very little hay around here that is quality enough to sustain cattle alone. The inputs in fertilizer, etc. in hay has been known at times to be costlier than feeding a supplement along with the hay.

You cannot balance a cows ration if you don't know the quality of your hay either.

You have to do what meets your particular situation. Don't get in to the frame of mind that you're gonna feed hay only until you know what the quality of the hay is. It's easier to keep condition on a momma cow than it is to bring her back up from skin and bones.

It still all goes back to being a grass farmer, anyone can feed a cow out of a sack.
The cows job is to perform not to be on the welfare roles.
If the cow can't perform it is time to be fired and hire some that can.
Arkieman it is not unusual for heifer to pull down she is losing her teeth if she is a two year old.

 

[Beef11]

Up here in country where by some it is considered impossible to get through winter without hay, people get confused and think they have to feed hay for seven months a year. According to my numbers When you are feeding hay you are losing money. So the longer the cow can stay out of the feedpile the more money you make. Spring feed, fall feed and summer feed should come from pastures and crop residues. A nice stand of winter pasture would be nice as well even if you did have to pitch some hay. Easy keepers and smart management are the key to a profitable operation.

 

[dun]

Should some special consideration be given to a heifer or should she be on the cull list as a "poor doer"?

A heifer is alwasy a crapshoot. If you plan on not keeping her, either sell her now or go ahead and put a little extra groceries in front of her so she will breed back. A bred cow is worth a whole lot more then an open one. I've had heiofers that really fell off badly as first fresheners that have bred back even in poor condition that have turned around on their second calf and didn;t lose as much condition and have gone on to be good cows.

 

[EAT BEEF]

It's not how much you make it's how much you can keep

 

[Brute 23]

It's not how much you make it's how much you can keep

I disagree, but could you explain that more? :| ... may be just a difference of circumstanes.

 

[MikeC]

Caustic wrote: It still all goes back to being a grass farmer, anyone can feed a cow out of a sack.

By the same token any one could run a cow per 50 acres here and never have to feed out of a sack, but the potential income from your acreage is being lost in the wind.........

You could increase the stocking rate and have to feed out of a sack for a month or so out of a year and make more money on your property investment.

It's a balancing act.

 

[EAT BEEF]

It's not how much you make it's how much you can keep

I disagree, but could you explain that more? :| ... may be just a difference of circumstanes.

I should have said how much you can save. You can spend alot and get more and I hate to use this for sounding like Kit Pharo but for me it's more about maximum profit than than maximum production.
I can get my 1 ton to put out 1,000 hp (not profitable but fun and kinda cool)
I might be able to to wean 1,000 lbs calves like Schaffs(I would get a big check but I think it would all be spent) Theres a balence, I'll spend $80 to make $100 I try not to spend $99 to make $100. It's whats in my back pocket when it's over that counts,at least for me.

 

[Arkieman]

Caustic wrote: It still all goes back to being a grass farmer, anyone can feed a cow out of a sack.

By the same token any one could run a cow per 50 acres here and never have to feed out of a sack, but the potential income from your acreage is being lost in the wind.........

You could increase the stocking rate and have to feed out of a sack for a month or so out of a year and make more money on your property investment.

It's a balancing act.

Good point Mike.

Right now I have 7 head on about 8 acres. I'm buying $20/roll hay and feeding (per head) 1 lb CSM ($22/100), 1 lb Gluten, 5 lb rice bran ($2.50/100 - let's just say I know someone!). I figure this gets me to about 10% protein w/ 57% TDN. From the State Coop they tell me most grass hay in Arkansas runs about 6% w/ 49% TDN. They also said some of the best bermuda hay in Ark is around 10% Protein and 54% TDN. I've figured it both ways and if I bought $40-$45/ roll bermuda it would be about the same, but they waste so much even w/ the home-made ring I have. I know they don't waste that grain - they clean it up GOOD!!

 

[Caustic Burno]

Caustic wrote: It still all goes back to being a grass farmer, anyone can feed a cow out of a sack.

By the same token any one could run a cow per 50 acres here and never have to feed out of a sack, but the potential income from your acreage is being lost in the wind.........

You could increase the stocking rate and have to feed out of a sack for a month or so out of a year and make more money on your property investment.

It's a balancing act.

I thought we were talking about Cattlemen not someone operating for an ag excemption.
It is still as simple as managing grass or giving your money to the other guy.