Grass on new land

Help Support CattleToday:

I planted a real sandy piece of new ground in tifquik back in 2012. It established a little quicker than Pensacola and Tifton 9, and it has a slightly longer growing season. The main problem that I have had with tifquik is that it gets tough quicker than Pensacola. My grazing rotations usually run from 21 to 28 days. That means that I graze a field down and then pull the cows out and they won't see that field for another 3 to 4 weeks. The Pensacola after that time is still palatable, but tifquik after that period of time is nearly unpalatable even though it has had twice the growth of Pensacola. Right now I am doing close outs and the cows have access to two fields at the same time and one field is Pensacola and the other is tifquik. They have about grazed the Pensacola into the dirt and only nibbled the tifquik.
 
Post Oak":1ni4sbo0 said:
I planted a real sandy piece of new ground in tifquik back in 2012. It established a little quicker than Pensacola and Tifton 9, and it has a slightly longer growing season. The main problem that I have had with tifquik is that it gets tough quicker than Pensacola. My grazing rotations usually run from 21 to 28 days. That means that I graze a field down and then pull the cows out and they won't see that field for another 3 to 4 weeks. The Pensacola after that time is still palatable, but tifquik after that period of time is nearly unpalatable even though it has had twice the growth of Pensacola. Right now I am doing close outs and the cows have access to two fields at the same time and one field is Pensacola and the other is tifquik. They have about grazed the Pensacola into the dirt and only nibbled the tifquik.

Thanks for the insight. That speaks volumes. In my reading about the Tiftquick it seemed there was a lot of talk about how it would establish fast and how it was great for nematode eradication on cropland and how it was great for farmers to use in their crop rotations. This seemed to be the undertone of their plugging but little was really said about its use for grazing which I thought odd - now I think I understand why. Thanks.
 
Now there are patches of common Bermuda in the tifquik that have been nubbed to the ground. I plowed under a couple of acres of failed Cheyenne a few years ago to try a rye/crabgrass rotation for a couple of years before planting tifquik, but I have already changed my mind and bought common Bermuda seed.
 
Post Oak- I'm in the midlands of SC, where the sand meets the clay. Just wondering if you are in sugar sand, loam, clay? I can grow Fescue or Bermuda, but Fescue works best. I am looking at Bahaia for some land I am clearing, like the OP, because of the drought conditions in the summer.

I like Fescue when its here, but that is only a few months in the spring and a few in the fall. There has to be something better. Which variety did you like better?

Depending on where the folks are in Ga, my results could be similar. I am on the same plane as Athens Ga, just to the east of it. Managing pasture is futile when it wont rain for months at the time, and the temps soar to mid 90s. Grazing to the ground has become the way it is here, so I think the Bahaia may be the best bet. Had a neighbor plow up his pasture and drill in Bahaia for his horses several years ago. He likes it better than the fescue he had.

Same situation as Oscarsteve, just wondering which varietys will work better in heavier land.For the record my only experience with Bahaia is been trying to kill it out of Bermuda fields.


Cotton1
 
Thought I would give you guys an update on our "new land". Cotton1, we're located between Athens and Augusta, GA. and as strange as it may be our little community is called Sandtown for a good reason. The land clearing crew finished up October 12. The only thing they had left to do was burn the 25-30 piles of stumps, roots, and limbs. At that time we hadn't had any rain since mid-August and no rain=no permit=no burning. It seems like we've been on hold forever! We received 3/4" of rain November 13, 2.1" last week, and about an inch so far this week. Burning began this past Monday. They are proceeding cautiously so that neighbors won't have smoke issues/complaints. Burning should be finished by the weekend. My next step is to get lime, chicken litter, and seeds in the ground. I talked with Dr. Hancock, forage specialist at UGA, about my lime issue (soil sample tests recommend 4-5 1/4 tons/acre). Dr. Hancock recommends ALL of it go down at one time and ASAP. I plan to get it all down along with the chicken litter. I'll turn it in with the harrow and drag, cultipack it, sow seeds (ryegrass since it is so late) and cultipack again. Maybe I'll be able to get some cows on it later in the winter. When Spring arrives, I'll turn it again and plan on putting a diverse mix of warm season perennials in. JOGEPHUS recommended Tiff9 bahia and I think I'll try that. NRCS forage specialists recommends some switchgrass. May try that as well along with some seeded type of bermuda and clover. I don't think I would have much luck with fescue (I know it's not a warm season perennial.) and don't want to have to deal with the maintenance of a sprigged hybrid bermuda. So, what do you guys think? Any suggestions, thoughts, comments are encouraged and welcomed.
 
oscarsteve":32m95v2u said:
Thought I would give you guys an update on our "new land". Cotton1, we're located between Athens and Augusta, GA. and as strange as it may be our little community is called Sandtown for a good reason. The land clearing crew finished up October 12. The only thing they had left to do was burn the 25-30 piles of stumps, roots, and limbs. At that time we hadn't had any rain since mid-August and no rain=no permit=no burning. It seems like we've been on hold forever! We received 3/4" of rain November 13, 2.1" last week, and about an inch so far this week. Burning began this past Monday. They are proceeding cautiously so that neighbors won't have smoke issues/complaints. Burning should be finished by the weekend. My next step is to get lime, chicken litter, and seeds in the ground. I talked with Dr. Hancock, forage specialist at UGA, about my lime issue (soil sample tests recommend 4-5 1/4 tons/acre). Dr. Hancock recommends ALL of it go down at one time and ASAP. I plan to get it all down along with the chicken litter. I'll turn it in with the harrow and drag, cultipack it, sow seeds (ryegrass since it is so late) and cultipack again. Maybe I'll be able to get some cows on it later in the winter. When Spring arrives, I'll turn it again and plan on putting a diverse mix of warm season perennials in. JOGEPHUS recommended Tiff9 bahia and I think I'll try that. NRCS forage specialists recommends some switchgrass. May try that as well along with some seeded type of bermuda and clover. I don't think I would have much luck with fescue (I know it's not a warm season perennial.) and don't want to have to deal with the maintenance of a sprigged hybrid bermuda. So, what do you guys think? Any suggestions, thoughts, comments are encouraged and welcomed.

I'd broadcast the Tif-9 seed and ryegrass seed together and let the cows walk the seed in. And in the spring top dress the ryegrass with brown top millet and some more Tif-9, and let the cows walk that in also. Doing this before a good rain will insure good results.
 
oscarsteve":14efb8z6 said:
JOGEPHUS recommended Tiff9 bahia and I think I'll try that. NRCS forage specialists recommends some switchgrass. May try that as well along with some seeded type of bermuda and clover. I don't think I would have much luck with fescue (I know it's not a warm season perennial.) and don't want to have to deal with the maintenance of a sprigged hybrid bermuda. So, what do you guys think? Any suggestions, thoughts, comments are encouraged and welcomed.

I'm in the process of clearing about 30 acres myself. And I'm also in the same area as you. McCormick County SC. Why do you think you wouldn't have much luck with fescue? Is it the sand? Fescue is awesome (well not this year but what else has been good?). Sounds like you already have some warm season grasses, why wouldn't you try to get some areas established for cool season? Stockpiling grass for the winter is so much easier than feeding hay and fescue is great for that. Another way to look at it is that I don't know anyone who runs out of grass in the summer when it is raining(fescue or not), but I know a lot of people that do in the winter.

I bought a trackhoe to stump the land and then hiring out a bulldozer to rake and pile. I have about 10 acres done I planted early October in rye and rye grass with half inch of rain and it came up. No rain for 38 days and then received 7 tenths. A lot of it was turning yellow and wasn't expecting much out of it but now it looks great! I have not got a soil test on it yet, but I put down about 2 tons of lime and chicken litter per acre before seeding. This is land that used to be soybean fields 40 years ago but was put into CRP and grew up in pines.

I have another 10 acres I didn't get done until about the middle of November and just seeded rye grass on it to get the ground covered. Still need to burn the piles in it. It is starting to get a green tint to the field.

My plans are to plant annuals for a year or so and then put in fescue and clover and hopefully have some summer type grasses mixed in. Some areas had a lot of Johnson grass and yellow foxtail in them this summer. I plan on doing milling next summer. I figured it would help smooth the fields to go over them 2-3 times.
 
I cleared all my pastures in stages over several years. It was all new ground. The first I planted was Pensacola Bahia. It took a long time to fully establish. The next I used Tifquick. It established a lot faster, greens up and grows earlier in spring, grows longer in fall and responds to fertilizer better. The last I planted, I used Tifton 9 because the Tifquick was getting so expensive. The Tifton9 is so close to the Tifquick, I would recommend that. Unless you can get a discount on Tifquick. I over seeded the Tifton9 on a stand of ryegrass in March once, let the cows stomp it in and fertilized after the ryegrass was grazed down. By end of summer I had a good stand. That's my experience.
 
DWA, I haven't completely ruled out fescue. I would love to have some to stockpile. There are a couple of people who do in my area. But, they don't have the sand like I have in this specific area. I usually have good luck over seeding my pastures with cool season annuals, even though doing so adds costs. I really want to have a diverse mix of grasses. Ideally, it would contain warm season perennials and cool season perennials (fescue most likely in this area). My goal is to establish as much variety as possible, add cool season annuals as needed, use intensive rotational grazing, and not have to feed hay at all. All this presumes adequate rainfall of course. I am between Tignall and Lincolnton and may only be 30 minutes, or less, from you. Would be interested in seeing what you've done and showing you what's going on here.
 
I'd be glad to show you what I'm doing. Also would be good to check out what you're doing. You are about 30 minutes from me. Sounds like we have the same goals. I haven't had the luck with cool season annuals I have tried to where I've felt it has paid for itself. I've been implementing a rotational grazing system since 2012. Kind of a combination of MiG and Mob grazing. These fields were continuously grazed for decades. I've kept about the same number of head and every year I'm getting closer to year round grazing. Last year I only fed about 40 bales down from 2-300/year when starting the rotational grazing. This year is a different story but I've been feeding some hay a little at a time over the past few months to keep the rest periods longer.

Also, the fescue has really came back since starting rotational grazing. It won't hold up to continuous grazing through winter and early spring.
 
dwa":1ccnbku0 said:
I've been implementing a rotational grazing system since 2012. Kind of a combination of MiG and Mob grazing. These fields were continuously grazed for decades. I've kept about the same number of head and every year I'm getting closer to year round grazing. Last year I only fed about 40 bales down from 2-300/year when starting the rotational grazing.

Have you tried to put a $ on extending the grazing season vs. increasing stocking rate ?
 
Stocker Steve":2qr0vwgp said:
Have you tried to put a $ on extending the grazing season vs. increasing stocking rate ?

I haven't. Too many variables. 2014 calf prices vs. 2016? 2014 grass production vs. 2016? I can tell you 2014 was a lot better year :lol: . I want to be a low input producer. I'm sure that some years with a higher stocking rate and bringing in more outside feed it would pencil out to my advantage, but I do not want to be dependent on outside feed sources. To me, it keeps your break even price a lot lower and takes out more variables. Take out the land clearing and I would probably be around 50-60 cents/lb break even point for my calves this year. That should continue to decrease.

Clearing land is far from low input, but I am trying to do it as cheap as possible and it should have a good ROI over the next 30+ years.

Right now I am stocked at about 1 cow to 3 acres. From the improvements the land has made over the last 4 years, my plan is to get it down to a cow per 2-2.5 acres over the next five years. I do not want to increase stocking rates much until I see the grass is here to do so.
 
dwa":1u5zofnz said:
I want to be a low input producer. I'm sure that some years with a higher stocking rate and bringing in more outside feed it would pencil out to my advantage, but I do not want to be dependent on outside feed sources. To me, it keeps your break even price a lot lower and takes out more variables.

Good points, and
Low input is not the same as low cost.
Dependent is not too bad if you have a herd or class of animals who are IDed to go when the grass growing gets tough.
How much nutrient benefit could your land clearing gain from outside feed sources?
 
DWA- Im not too far away from you or Oscarsteve I don't think. I'm in Saluda County SC. I'm interested in the way you have changed your herd. It looks like the land clearing around here might get put on hold as its about to get wet. I'm still hoping they get the root rake work done by Jan, but we will see.

For me last years flood caused economical problems, then the summer of no rain really put it on me. I have reduced my herd by 1/2 and besides the land clearing I have intentions of rotational grazing. If it works out for me the way I'm shooting for, I should wind up with about 8 pastures(within one) that are in the 7-12 acre range. My idea is about 10 days grazing and 70 days off per pasture. This last years weather made me think irrigation may be necessary.

Anyway, the neighbor planted Pensecola(?) and likes it for his horses. From what Im gathering on here the Tiff-9 is what sound like the best overall for this area. I would like to keep up with you guys and share what I am doing here, so maybe we can learn together. My biggest difference from Oscarsteve I think is the sand. I have red clay on top mostly, and some sand on top for maybe up to 6-8 inches, then red or white clay.

Cotton1
 
True Grit Farms":3e6hgjs7 said:
70 days rest is 30 days of wasted grass. Bahia grass needs grazing or cutting every 6 weeks.

That's why I wouldn't want to plant a field with it from my experience with it. Unless you are in the need of more summer grass. I'm assuming what we have in areas is the Pensacola variety. It does well in the summer but cows will not hardly touch it after a frost. My rest periods are normally 45-60 days. First rotation of the year may only be 30 days. With a variety of grasses you'll always have something in the fields that are in a vegetative state for them to get by on.

I've noticed that the shorter rotation you are on the cows always graze the grass they grazed the last time. Leaving some that matures and the rest very short. The answer could be to increase stocking rate to where the grass was grazed evenly. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna stock to where I only have 30-40 days of grass in front of me. One dry spell and you're toast. Also, I'm not going to mow a field after the cows leave every time. I haven't mowed my fields in 6 years. I do spot spray and have mowed some stuff after I have killed it.
 
Bahia is a warm season grass only, you have to treat it as such by utilizing it in the spring summer and fall. After last frost and before first frost. You can also go to long between grazing or cutting with no nutritional value left in what's standing in the field. You can also plan yourself broke. Every yr is different and every yr you have to adjust and adapt to current conditions
 
Stocker Steve":3dultq9c said:
Good points, and
Low input is not the same as low cost.
Dependent is not too bad if you have a herd or class of animals who are IDed to go when the grass growing gets tough.
How much nutrient benefit could your land clearing gain from outside feed sources?

I understand that but I'm either imputing labor or $$$ into the farm. I want all that to be as low as possible.

Yes, I've been toying with the idea of buying some calves from local farmers/sale barns. I would precondition them and then make load lots with them. If they will pay for themselves on the outside feed and my labor, you get the fertilizer for free. Any additional income would be great. I can get it to pencil out but it is just the initial investment to be set up to do it that has me held back at the moment. I've been trying to get the land I'm clearing into production with all of the "free" time I have.

I have about a 4 acre spot I cleared and have fed probably 60 round bales of mature hay that contained ryegrass, crimson clover, and fescue that looks really good now. Started feeding it in the early part of September. The hay did not have much quality to it the cows would eat but I fed some better hay along with it. I got the hay for the price of baling, and bought it for the intention to get grass started on some of the new ground.

Also, I lurk on here quite a bit and agree with a lot of your thoughts.
 
What works for me here might not work for you. I make the cows eat or stomp every field before I pull them off. Normally I give 50 head of cows 2 acres of grass for 2 days. Sometimes 2 acres will only last 1 day, depends on the rain. I like my pastures grazed closer than most people do. But I renovate and apply fertilizer as needed to the pastures every year. I also drag them each time the cows are moved to a different pasture. In a normal year I'll cut hay off a few of my pastures, but last year because of the drought I had to graze my hay fields. Every year is a different story.
 

Latest posts

Top