grass not growing

[simskop]

I am in SW Missouri and a rate of 1 cow per 2.5 acres sounds to high for me. I go 1 cow & calf per 4 acres, and graze till Jan. almost ever year. Then in the spring you need to keep them in a small portion of the farm feeding them hay until the grass is up and going. Then of course the fertilizer, every year you don't do it its just going to get worse. I don't know if your place is up to pare for soil test or you fertilized. I am just assuming you didn't.

 

[Aero]

Sorry, MoFarmer - we posted at the same time.
How long have you been grazing this land? Anything growing, takes nutrients out of the soil. Sooner or later, the soil doesn't have anything for the plant to grow. Plants of any kind won't grow without food. You would be money ahead to sell some cows & use that money to put down some fertilizer. Might not be the right time of year to do that where you are at. Check with locals.

just feed them plenty of hay. this gets the cows through and puts nutrients into your soil for growth later. 80 percent of the nutritients in hay goes through the cow and into your soil, making your soil ready to grow when the rain comes.

if you can get hay at a deal, it is a lot more effective than buying fertilizer.

 

[ga. prime]

just feed them plenty of hay. this gets the cows through and puts nutrients into your soil for growth later. 80 percent of the nutritients in hay goes through the cow and into your soil, making your soil ready to grow when the rain comes.

if you can get hay at a deal, it is a lot more effective than buying fertilizer.

Interesting. Very interesting.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Must be the heat Vette. In a few more days i will be the same way.

 

[Aero]

Interesting. Very interesting.

if you look at fertilizer rates and figure up what nutrients are in decent hay, you can feed your cows for nearly nothing while fertilizing your pastures from somebody else's place. the cows wont spread it as evenly unless you are mob grazing, but it's the most useful concept i have found in a while [keenanv]

if you are making hay, it's a different story, but if you can buy it pretty cheap I think this might be a big factor in profitability.

an AL extension study showed that in general a 1200 lb round bale has the following:
46 lb of N @ $.4543/lb = $20.90
12 lb of P205 @ $.5673 = $6.80
50 lb of K20 @ $.395 = $19.75

total = $47.45 for a 1200 lb bale.

most round bales we see are in the 700-800 range, so lets say a 750 lb 4x5 bale is $29.66 (750/1200*$47.45)

if you pass 80% through the cow you end up with $23.73 worth of nutrients hitting the ground with every bale you feed. even if the lack of even spread reduces the effectiveness to 75%, you are still getting $17.80 out of each bale feeding your cows for nearly nothing.

anybody buying these bales for $20/bale?

most who are doing this on purpose, roll out the bales in a different area every time to spread nutrients around.

references:
current nutrient rates: http://www.crystalsugar.com/agronomy/agtools/npk/
hay composition: http://www.noble.org/Ag/Forage/RealValueHay/index.html
80%: Keenan Turner, KY Ag Ext grazing specialist

 

[dun]

even if the lack of even spread reduces the effectiveness to 75%,

That's pretty optimistic since 90% of it will be in the shade and around the water points.

 

[Aero]

even if the lack of even spread reduces the effectiveness to 75%,

That's pretty optimistic since 90% of it will be in the shade and around the water points.

another reason to mob graze

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Aero - I agree that the manure spread by cattle put nutrients back into the soil. I question your statement "80% of the nutrients in hay goes through the cow and into your soil" :shock:
If my cows only utilized 20% of the nutrient value of the hay I gave them, I would never be able to keep a cow alive during the winter.

 

[Aero]

Aero - I agree that the manure spread by cattle put nutrients back into the soil. I question your statement "80% of the nutrients in hay goes through the cow and into your soil" :shock:
If my cows only utilized 20% of the nutrient value of the hay I gave them, I would never be able to keep a cow alive during the winter.

not my numbers to begin with; a man with mch more education in the area than either of us made that statement.

 

[ga. prime]

Interesting. Very interesting.

if you look at fertilizer rates and figure up what nutrients are in decent hay, you can feed your cows for nearly nothing while fertilizing your pastures from somebody else's place. the cows wont spread it as evenly unless you are mob grazing, but it's the most useful concept i have found in a while [keenanv]

if you are making hay, it's a different story, but if you can buy it pretty cheap I think this might be a big factor in profitability.

an AL extension study showed that in general a 1200 lb round bale has the following:
46 lb of N @ $.4543/lb = $20.90
12 lb of P205 @ $.5673 = $6.80
50 lb of K20 @ $.395 = $19.75

total = $47.45 for a 1200 lb bale.

most round bales we see are in the 700-800 range, so lets say a 750 lb 4x5 bale is $29.66 (750/1200*$47.45)

if you pass 80% through the cow you end up with $23.73 worth of nutrients hitting the ground with every bale you feed. even if the lack of even spread reduces the effectiveness to 75%, you are still getting $17.80 out of each bale feeding your cows for nearly nothing.

anybody buying these bales for $20/bale?

most who are doing this on purpose, roll out the bales in a different area every time to spread nutrients around.

references:
current nutrient rates: http://www.crystalsugar.com/agronomy/agtools/npk/
hay composition: http://www.noble.org/Ag/Forage/RealValueHay/index.html
80%: Keenan Turner, KY Ag Ext grazing specialist

Intriguing concept. Thanks for posting.

 

[simskop]

If a guy cant afford to fertilize for cows, which those nutrients are going back in the ground as well, then how can some one afford to fertilize, cut, rack, and bale hay then sell it and make money?

 

[ga. prime]

The man baling hay is going in the hole if he's selling it cheaply enough for the buyer to come out ahead on his hay into fertilizer conversion. I don't know what the breakeven point would be on it. Probably $30 or less at today's fertilizer prices. Often times hay gets sold for less than production cost. It's not at all uncommon to lose money on hay sales.

 

[tom4018]

I don't know your area but our pastures have not done what they did last year. I cut part of mine for hay last year and can't even think of doing that this year. Mine had almost identical fertilizer as last year, a little more N but slightly less P and K, going to put litter on .

I think the last 2 years of droughts have took their toll on us with last year being the worst of the 2. What hay I have gotten done has yeilded a little more this year but it has been a wet June and just now got the last of the hay on the ground.

 

[options]

Aero

Those values are averages for what it takes to produce 1 ton of bermuda grass, not the nutrients contained in the bale.

 

[options]

The last time our firm ran a test on hay for nutrient values the run of the mill god only knows what type of grass it was it tested at 1.1/0.5/2.3

 

[TexasBred]

Aero - I agree that the manure spread by cattle put nutrients back into the soil. I question your statement "80% of the nutrients in hay goes through the cow and into your soil" :shock:
If my cows only utilized 20% of the nutrient value of the hay I gave them, I would never be able to keep a cow alive during the winter.

not my numbers to begin with; a man with mch more education in the area than either of us made that statement.

Tell your friend to reverse his thinking and keep studying...20% (more or less) of the nutrient intake may be used for milk production but other amounts will also be used for maintenance and growth and some excreted in urine as well. Not all ends up in the manure. And the manure will only be as good as the feed that was fed to the animal doing the "fertilizing" and only about 50% of the nitrogen in manure is available for use by plants. If what they're eating is worthless the manure will be also, that's why manure from dairy cattle will always have a higher nutrient value than that from an animal that has only been fed hay and some grazing.

 

[ga. prime]

Very complex question with no easy answers. Aero is absolutely right that if hay can be brought in from another farm cheaply enough, it can be converted to fertilizer by cows at a cost savings over conventional fertilizer.

 

[TexasBred]

Very complex question with no easy answers. Aero is absolutely right that if hay can be brought in from another farm cheaply enough, it can be converted to fertilizer by cows at a cost savings over conventional fertilizer.

$20 a roll hay ain't gonna have many nutrients in it of any kind, before or after eating.

 

[ga. prime]

$20 a roll hay ain't gonna have many nutrients in it of any kind, before or after eating.

In most cases true. It's all relative.

 

[Jogeephus]

Aero - I agree that the manure spread by cattle put nutrients back into the soil. I question your statement "80% of the nutrients in hay goes through the cow and into your soil" :shock:
If my cows only utilized 20% of the nutrient value of the hay I gave them, I would never be able to keep a cow alive during the winter.

not my numbers to begin with; a man with mch more education in the area than either of us made that statement.

Tell your friend to reverse his thinking and keep studying...20% (more or less) of the nutrient intake may be used for milk production but other amounts will also be used for maintenance and growth and some excreted in urine as well. Not all ends up in the manure. And the manure will only be as good as the feed that was fed to the animal doing the "fertilizing" and only about 50% of the nitrogen in manure is available for use by plants. If what they're eating is worthless the manure will be also, that's why manure from dairy cattle will always have a higher nutrient value than that from an animal that has only been fed hay and some grazing.

Here is a good article I received from a smart feller. Look on page 2 and table 2 and here is the answer. I thought it quite interesting.

http://foragesoftexas.tamu.edu/pdf/improvedpasture.pdf