grass fed bloodlines

[dieselbeef]

I think my next bull will be out of my herd. My current bull has held up better than any previous ones that I have owned. At this time I have 3 intact young males that I will consider as a replacement. I do not see how I would be any worse off. Your thoughts please.

My experience has been that the more we use our own bulls the happier I am with our calf crop and especially our replacement females.

inbred???..linebred???

 

[Dylan Biggs]

I think my next bull will be out of my herd. My current bull has held up better than any previous ones that I have owned. At this time I have 3 intact young males that I will consider as a replacement. I do not see how I would be any worse off. Your thoughts please.

My experience has been that the more we use our own bulls the happier I am with our calf crop and especially our replacement females.

inbred???..linebred???

I will take a look at your steak thread.


Re: Inbred/line bred, the majority of our cattle are commercial with a large enough gene pool that line/in breeding isn't a concern. We also have a small herd of around 50 Red and Black Angus cows. The last few years I have been doing some experimental inbreeding and line breeding. I have been inbreeding to see what may be lurking in the genetic wood pile. So far after almost 30 sire daughter matings we have come up with with a clean genetic bill of health. Just started line breeding, 1/2 sib matings, this year with 2 of our young bulls, will know more in the May and June. We started with Purebred Angus in 1985 and for many years I bought into the major AI sires that were suppose to be the top genetics available. After many years of unfulfilled expectations and almost breeding our purebreds out of existence due to continual heavy culling, I finally decided to start using my own bulls. I knew I couldn't be any worse off. So far I have had very few complaints and my purebred herd is growing instead of shrinking. Feet and udders are better, fertility is better, ease of fleshing is better and we are getting a more consistent type. Our herd still has a ways to go but it is a long row to hoe anyway and the results of may labor are my own genetic doing, which is much more satisfying in the end.

My main Purebred herd sire. He is a red gene carrier.
A medium framed, easy fleshing, highly fertile bull of the type that we like.

One of his sons at ~ 100 days of age.

Another of his sons we are using to line breed out in the breeding pasture this summer.

Another of his sons that we used last year on heifers, he had a bit to much power for range calving our heifers, but we got lucky and were able to help the few that needed it.



I am a chronic experimenter and so far I am pleased with the results.

 

[KNERSIE]

I like that red bullcalf!

Actually I like what you are doing since I am doing exactly the same.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Wow! Bulls that look like bulls! When someone on here says "guts butts and nuts" this is what they mean!

 

[Bonsman]

I like that red bullcalf!

Actually I like what you are doing since I am doing exactly the same.

Times three............very nice looking animals.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

I appreciate the kind remarks, thank you.

 

[Northern Rancher]

They look familiar..

 

[vclavin]

I agree with Novatech that more often then not the term "grass fed" when used in reference to genetics is a promotional line.
I also agree with Novatech that there are cattle that do better then others on marginal quality pasture and forage.
From what Dun has described of his selection process we have been doing something very similar since 1985 and in addition have been selecting our own bulls for their ability to put on "condition" on grass as yearlings and for their ability to gain "weight" on grass as yearlings which as it turns out is two different things. Not all cattle will do both within a set time frame. I have always assumed as Knersie says that it is "type" selection that is the crux of the matter. Specifically what type is the question. With the advent of all sorts of technology to assist us in selection, "type" selection seems to have been given less priority. Ultimately beauty is as beauty does and it is that type as Dun says that shines in the working environment that is of value to us in our selection process.

To kill cattle off the grass at 16 to18 months of age that will hang a "heavy" enough carcass to be profitable, with enough finish to age properly (Eg. without excessive shrink and trim loss after 18 to 21 days on the hook) and that will provide an eating experience that translates into repeat sales is a fairly tricky exercise. Especially when Mother Nature isn't always the most reliable bringer of rain. :cboy:

This ^^^^^^^^

We have tried finishing cattle on grass. Our problem has been getting the fat to turn into the "creamy white" fat that the consumers desire. Maybe someone else on the board has figured out how to turn the fat white with just a grass ration; but thus far, the answer has escaped us.

From what I have read, that yellow fat is caused by the vitamin A content in your grass. This vitamin causes the nice yellow fat in pastured chickens and is detrimental to mRBLING Ft deposition in cattle.
Valerie

 

[robert]

nice functional, typey cattle Dylan Biggs, the red calf has a real herd bull look to him, the old black bull looks like a real cow maker. There is only one reason we still use a mainstream AI sire in our breeding program rather than only our home raised bulls, and it isn't the quality of the calves, it is to maintain linkage with the mainstream population so that your EPD's don't go down the pan in the out-crossing, latest greatest to fix the problems of the last latest-greatest, scheme that genetic evaluation has become. EPD's today are the baby beef and frame score race of the past.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

nice functional, typey cattle Dylan Biggs, the red calf has a real herd bull look to him, the old black bull looks like a real cow maker. There is only one reason we still use a mainstream AI sire in our breeding program rather than only our home raised bulls, and it isn't the quality of the calves, it is to maintain linkage with the mainstream population so that your EPD's don't go down the pan in the out-crossing, latest greatest to fix the problems of the last latest-greatest, scheme that genetic evaluation has become. EPD's today are the baby beef and frame score race of the past.

Robert, thank you.
EPD's as a selection tool are fine, EPD's for the sake of bigger numbers and marketing appeal are just as you stated.
Our old bull has been used natural service in two different purebred herds the last two years which should improve his accuracies if nothing else. As far as using "mainstream" AI sires, it is not a practice I have ruled out completely, partially for the reason you stated, but when and if I do, I will no longer rely on third party evaluations of a bull or of his progeny. If I can't see the bull, his progeny, and producing daughters in the flesh, I won't be using him. To me, any more, sire selection is as much about genetic risk management as genetic improvement, which when you think about it is a bit of a sad statement. Maybe I am just becoming jaded and paranoid! For sure I don't believe any of the marketing jargon/propaganda in AI sire directories.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

nice functional, typey cattle Dylan Biggs, the red calf has a real herd bull look to him, the old black bull looks like a real cow maker. There is only one reason we still use a mainstream AI sire in our breeding program rather than only our home raised bulls, and it isn't the quality of the calves, it is to maintain linkage with the mainstream population so that your EPD's don't go down the pan in the out-crossing, latest greatest to fix the problems of the last latest-greatest, scheme that genetic evaluation has become. EPD's today are the baby beef and frame score race of the past.

Robert, thank you.
EPD's as a selection tool are fine, EPD's for the sake of bigger numbers and marketing appeal are just as you stated.
Our old bull has been used natural service in two different purebred herds the last two years which should improve his accuracies if nothing else. As far as using "mainstream" AI sires, it is not a practice I have ruled out completely, partially for the reason you stated, but when and if I do, I will no longer rely on third party evaluations of a bull or of his progeny. If I can't see the bull, his progeny, and producing daughters in the flesh, I won't be using him. To me, any more, sire selection is as much about genetic risk management as genetic improvement, which when you think about it is a bit of a sad statement. Maybe I am just becoming jaded and paranoid! For sure I don't believe any of the marketing jargon/propaganda in AI sire directories.

Dylan Biggs - and - robert-

Here - in a nutshell of postings - are some of the most intelligent comments which have come out of CattleToday threads in a long time! These Forum subjects, in my opinion, are for the perusal and advanced information of ALL beef breeders so that they can understand the successful methods of improving their financial bottom line, (PROFIT), and evaluating and elevating the OVERALL quality of their BU$INE$$ methods.

I have been reproved in the past on these pages for stressing the importance of avoiding "Single Trait Selection" methods in evaluating seedstock candidates. These comments by these two producers magnify and intensify the importance of intensive and thorough planning and the utilization of multiple factors of evaluation in the selection of our seedstock cattle!

Well done, Gentlemen!

DOC HARRIS