gonna buy some really small cows

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MtnCows, you are correct. Everyone starts somewhere. Maybe you shouldn't worry too much about filling your pasture up? Maybe concentrate a little more on the low line type cattle. I'd hate someone having to start with poor stunted type heifers. You're gonna have to probably invest a chunk of change to get them to the point of putting a healthy calf on the ground.
 
I'd hate someone having to start with poor stunted type heifers. You're gonna have to probably invest a chunk of change to get them to the point of putting a healthy calf on the ground.

Getting that heifer's calf 'on the ground' may not be that hard or expensive with a light stocking rate, but getting it grown off will be depressing.
Every smallish heifer I ever kept or bought, I came to wish I had not. Hard doers.
 
I get the smaller cow idea. I have had some small angus that probably had lowline in them and bred to a normal angus bull, would wean calves that were nearly as tall as the momma's and would weigh in the mid 4's. Around here the smaller weight cattle do often bring more per pound. So a 350 to 400 lb calf will bring 1.60 and a 450 to 500 will bring 1.50 plus. These are steer calves. So a 400 x 1.60 =640. A 450 x 1.50 = 675. Still a $35. added return for the same basic input.
The thing I see lately, the 6 weight calves are bringing the same as the 5 wt cattle and if nice, even a little bit more. The market looks to be holding and will mostly remain that way from all the talk, for the rest of the fall. If the agreement with Mexico goes through, and Canada gets with it too, then some of the "tariff and trade wars" will fizzle out and we will pick back up some of our export markets.
Plus, there are droughts in many parts of the world; Australia has some severe drought areas & issues. There are drought areas in Europe, Sweden, Germany and other countries. It will help to keep their prices stable, even with some having to liquidate in the short term. And let's face it, we have some really bad drought areas in the US. All this drought will make producers reduce their herds to be able to survive with hay and feed prices what they are. And there are water issues and hauling water is the pitts for any length of time. I haul water to one place for the calves and nurse cows when they are in the lot due to none available near it. Not the end of the world, but still a pain. I have had to haul water to pastures when we have had a spring go dry. We moved cattle out after 2 weeks because it is a time consuming and expensive way to keep cattle.
What the drought areas will do is to depopulate cattle in those areas, maybe depress the market a bit, but then replacements will be in demand after these areas have a chance to recover. It takes different types of cattle to survive in different areas. Small cattle may be a good answer where you are. But they may not be for other range conditions. The thing is, no matter the size, they have to milk and be able to feed a calf. Small but scrawney type calves may do okay for awhile, but if it is a continued trend, they will not hold up and the prices will not hold up.
I am not saying your calves are scrawney. But to continue to breed for the small size will eventually do you out of a marketable animal for the general public. HOWEVER, the smaller niche markets will be available to you because of the smaller family size and people wanting smaller cuts of beef and smaller size cuts. And this could be where your calves are going. I also know that there are a couple of buyers here who will buy the "smaller" framed stuff and a few who won't touch them. You obviously have a market for them there.

Most of our beef cows will top at 1150 to 1200. When we cull cows they often weigh in the 10-1100 lb range. So we don't have big cows. Many big cows seem to have more feet problems here and weaning a calf that is 50 lbs heavier isn't worth it because she has had to eat alot more. That is why we like these more moderate sized cows. They also seem to be able to take the weather we have. And in this area we have alot of hills, and the more moderate framed cows seem to be a little more athletic.

I want to take a calf off a cow that will weigh 1/3 to 1/2 of the cows weight at 6-7 months. So a calf over 400 is good. We take off quite a few that weigh in the 450-550 range. It has always been the best selling size here in the past. This is all grass/pasture, and hay in the winter for the fall calving group. We feed a little grain to the old grandma group in the winter, but usually they will be on their last calf and want the calf to grow and the cow to maintain her weight. We do feed a little grain sorghum and corn silage in the winter as it is fairly cheap feed for us, to the lactating cows if they are close to the barn, which again are more the old cows and sometimes the first calf heifers. I don't like first calf heifers as fall calvers. Takes alot for them to feed a calf, maintain their body weight and still grow themselves. But we usually have 10-15 every year. If they are very far from the barn and silage bags, they will get some grain supplement. Maybe 10 lbs per cow per week.

We buy and sell some cattle. Right now replacement cattle prices are somewhat cheap. But I do not want the calving problems with real small framed bred thin cows. You lose one or two you are losing your profit on 5 to 10. There is not alot of profit in the cow/calf game. We figure it costs us 450 a year to keep a cow, minimum. So the calf is only returning say 600 so that is only 150 profit on a calf. Takes 100 calves to make 15,000. I can buy decent breds now in the 800 range. I only buy cows, no heifers. It will still take 4-5 years to pay off that cow at 150 profit a year.

Ask CB; he keeps very close cost/profit figures.

We have made some money on cheap cows in the past. But if you lose a few, or even if they just abort, the salvage value of the cow is low due to her smaller size. Around here they like a 1100 plus cull cow in good flesh. A small one will be worth 10 to 20 cents less per pound even if she is in good flesh. It all adds up.

We started with mostly cheap cattle, some poor ones. Several were dairy crosses. Still keep some of the dairy cattle as I like them. But I know they are going to bring less. You have to keep and breed for the market you are selling to and if you can do good with the smaller ones there then you are good. Try a few cheap small ones. But if you lose a few - especially to calving difficulties, you will find what works for you and then build from there.
 
farmerjan":2c1dudre said:
I get the smaller cow idea. I have had some small angus that probably had lowline in them and bred to a normal angus bull, would wean calves that were nearly as tall as the momma's and would weigh in the mid 4's. Around here the smaller weight cattle do often bring more per pound. So a 350 to 400 lb calf will bring 1.60 and a 450 to 500 will bring 1.50 plus. These are steer calves. So a 400 x 1.60 =640. A 450 x 1.50 = 675. Still a $35. added return for the same basic input.
The thing I see lately, the 6 weight calves are bringing the same as the 5 wt cattle and if nice, even a little bit more. The market looks to be holding and will mostly remain that way from all the talk, for the rest of the fall. If the agreement with Mexico goes through, and Canada gets with it too, then some of the "tariff and trade wars" will fizzle out and we will pick back up some of our export markets.
Plus, there are droughts in many parts of the world; Australia has some severe drought areas & issues. There are drought areas in Europe, Sweden, Germany and other countries. It will help to keep their prices stable, even with some having to liquidate in the short term. And let's face it, we have some really bad drought areas in the US. All this drought will make producers reduce their herds to be able to survive with hay and feed prices what they are. And there are water issues and hauling water is the pitts for any length of time. I haul water to one place for the calves and nurse cows when they are in the lot due to none available near it. Not the end of the world, but still a pain. I have had to haul water to pastures when we have had a spring go dry. We moved cattle out after 2 weeks because it is a time consuming and expensive way to keep cattle.
What the drought areas will do is to depopulate cattle in those areas, maybe depress the market a bit, but then replacements will be in demand after these areas have a chance to recover. It takes different types of cattle to survive in different areas. Small cattle may be a good answer where you are. But they may not be for other range conditions. The thing is, no matter the size, they have to milk and be able to feed a calf. Small but scrawney type calves may do okay for awhile, but if it is a continued trend, they will not hold up and the prices will not hold up.
I am not saying your calves are scrawney. But to continue to breed for the small size will eventually do you out of a marketable animal for the general public. HOWEVER, the smaller niche markets will be available to you because of the smaller family size and people wanting smaller cuts of beef and smaller size cuts. And this could be where your calves are going. I also know that there are a couple of buyers here who will buy the "smaller" framed stuff and a few who won't touch them. You obviously have a market for them there.

Most of our beef cows will top at 1150 to 1200. When we cull cows they often weigh in the 10-1100 lb range. So we don't have big cows. Many big cows seem to have more feet problems here and weaning a calf that is 50 lbs heavier isn't worth it because she has had to eat alot more. That is why we like these more moderate sized cows. They also seem to be able to take the weather we have. And in this area we have alot of hills, and the more moderate framed cows seem to be a little more athletic.

I want to take a calf off a cow that will weigh 1/3 to 1/2 of the cows weight at 6-7 months. So a calf over 400 is good. We take off quite a few that weigh in the 450-550 range. It has always been the best selling size here in the past. This is all grass/pasture, and hay in the winter for the fall calving group. We feed a little grain to the old grandma group in the winter, but usually they will be on their last calf and want the calf to grow and the cow to maintain her weight. We do feed a little grain sorghum and corn silage in the winter as it is fairly cheap feed for us, to the lactating cows if they are close to the barn, which again are more the old cows and sometimes the first calf heifers. I don't like first calf heifers as fall calvers. Takes alot for them to feed a calf, maintain their body weight and still grow themselves. But we usually have 10-15 every year. If they are very far from the barn and silage bags, they will get some grain supplement. Maybe 10 lbs per cow per week.

We buy and sell some cattle. Right now replacement cattle prices are somewhat cheap. But I do not want the calving problems with real small framed bred thin cows. You lose one or two you are losing your profit on 5 to 10. There is not alot of profit in the cow/calf game. We figure it costs us 450 a year to keep a cow, minimum. So the calf is only returning say 600 so that is only 150 profit on a calf. Takes 100 calves to make 15,000. I can buy decent breds now in the 800 range. I only buy cows, no heifers. It will still take 4-5 years to pay off that cow at 150 profit a year.

Ask CB; he keeps very close cost/profit figures.

We have made some money on cheap cows in the past. But if you lose a few, or even if they just abort, the salvage value of the cow is low due to her smaller size. Around here they like a 1100 plus cull cow in good flesh. A small one will be worth 10 to 20 cents less per pound even if she is in good flesh. It all adds up.

We started with mostly cheap cattle, some poor ones. Several were dairy crosses. Still keep some of the dairy cattle as I like them. But I know they are going to bring less. You have to keep and breed for the market you are selling to and if you can do good with the smaller ones there then you are good. Try a few cheap small ones. But if you lose a few - especially to calving difficulties, you will find what works for you and then build from there.
thanks for the post theres alot of good advice and information here
 
True Grit Farms":4pg0ct6p said:
We have a name for those type of cattle around here, but it's not politically correct or needed.
Probably the same name my dad always used. :lol2:
 
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