Get"er Done Right First Time

[Brahma Bull]

Ok I am finally going to give the Embryo Transfer Program a try.
After all the years of doing it the old way/natural way.Seems it is the wave of the future to stay in the cattle business.If you were going to start off from Square One,get it done right the first time.What would be the best recipiant cows,say Beefmaster?As far as donor cows/bulls,you would want the embryo from the best of the best you can afford or money can buy correct?Build a quality foundation herd of the particular breed you choose.Then AI that herd of heifers.Your sure wouldn't need any bull,pasture a bull.Even if you would sell the calves at the sales barn,they would be excellent replacements for commerical use.Building a herd is like that old saying about the chicken or the egg,which comes first.Oh well it is food for thought.

 

[novatech]

I don,t do it myself but Heritage in hungerford was using brahman/holstein cross. Ed Cuttler said they worked great for him. What breed/or birth weight you are going with may determine the type cow you will need. Good luck.
By the way what breed are you going with?

 

[Angus In Texas]

Honestly some of the best recips around are Jersey/Angus crosses..... they are very moderate framed thus less intake for the output, very good milkers, and highly fertile with the Jersey in their but its not easy to find them. Embryo transfer is definitely very high risk high reward. We put in three embryos last fall, one took and the calf died right after birth due to oxygen deprivation thus giving us nada for the money and time invested but it won't discourage us from trying again this year.

 

[sizmic]

I would start by looking within my own herd for donors. I am not saying the others aren't any good, but I know my own cattle. As far as conception, one time I put 3 eggs in, got 3 live healthy calves, all bulls. I have one cow I should've started flushing years ago but I got tunnel visioned on numbers. Every year she has trotted in the best calf but she has some marginal epd's. She will get flushed next season quite extensively. As far as bulls to use, I would use highly maternal, proven bulls. The one cow will get flushed to the bulls used previously on her since I already know it can work. My goal for embryos is to give my best cows more chances to reproduce themselves, sorta' even out the odds against the bulls if you will. It is very hard to find a balance between proven genetics and current "hot" sires, meaning, I can take somewhat of a chance on a new bull as long as they are used on my best cows. Thats probably not what some people will agree with but thats the way I try and find a balance.
Every herd has a "best cow", if none in your herd strike you as acceptable you probably won't be satisfied with any you can buy either.
I have been fortunate enough to become friends with a Jersey man who on occasion has some half Angus, half Jersey heifers I can get a hold of. They will get to catch some embryos from my cow in the spring if she does all right. (not as heifers, they are and were bred to an angus bull)

Just the way I do it,
Sizmic

 

[Angus In Texas]

I agree never put embryos in heifers... even though heifers are typically more fertile than cows, there are too many variables. Will they milk, will they have the calf with no assistance, will they be a good mother, etc.

 

[TheBullLady]

Any cow that is half dairy will make a great recip.. and can raise a calf with plenty of milk, which should be important in raising a calf. It surprises me how many people use mediocre cows for recips, unless you wean the calf early and get it on feed.

If you're not afraid of some risk, buy embryos or pregnancies on some "up and coming" genetics. May work, may not, but if they are good calves, you'll be in a good position! And the embryos will be cheaper than proven genetics. If you have a pretty good grasp on the bloodlines in your chosen breeds, you'll be able to choose wisely.

A friend of mine bought three expensive embryos last year. Two calves where 125+ bull calves, which died at birth, and the one he did manage to save was obviously too large to consider as a herd sire!

 

[Brahma Bull]

Well I really would like to have a herd of registered brahma cows with top of the line genetics.Better than the ones I have or had.Ones that would cost me an arm & leg if I bought them as a heifer.Something with lot of "+" in their bloodline.Yeah I was thinking a good recipiant cow with some dairy breed in her would be a good choice.The reason I got on the thought of doing embryo is a ranch I had though about buying some heifers from.Told me it would be much cheaper to buy the embryo than a weaned heifer.I am just trying to put a lot of thought and research into this high risk program before I start it.Doing my homework.Then the thought of doing embryo exporting too.Lot of money and lot of risk.Why brahmas?So many breeds you can cross with making F1 replacements if all else fails.Have to be a Spaceage Cowboy now days to stay in the cow business.ET seems best way to do it.Maybe why Texas A&M now offers a Master Degree in ranching.The old way still works but I just had to euthanize my best cow.Had torn ligimants the vet said.Maybe a broken hip.My best bull is what caused it I am pretty sure.So might have to get straws from my bull now on or sell him.Really hurts like .

 

[dun]

It may be cheaper to buy the embryo but you have to take into account the cost of prepping the recip and feeding her for nine months then the additional cost of her and the heifer, if you get a heifer, until the calf is weaned. Plus, no matter how good a particular mating is you don;t really know how good the resulting calf will be. Of course if your looking at 10k priced weaned heifers to buy it would be cheaper but would take a lot longer for her to start paying for herself.

 

[novatech]

By the time you finish you will have $1200 to $1500 in each live calf. That is plus the embrios and semen. There are a few people makeing a living at it around my area, which includes yours. I paid about the same for some cows that have plenty of +'s in their pedigree. One with a total of 54. They are out there at the right price but you will have to look hard and stay away from the big boys if you want a reasonable price.
You may want to join some of the local Brahman assoc.'s and rub shoulders with some of them.

 

[TheBullLady]

A lot of the Brahman breeders are going with sexed semen.. for the obvious reasons. There were some nice cows that sold a month or so ago that were under $2500.

You're not far from the sale this Saturday, it might be worth a trip. Some great cattle are selling, and they can't ALL be high priced!

 

[Brahma Bull]

Well it is pretty dang tough on me to make any of the "Sales" with this job I have.Home only 2 months out of the year,on a ship out at sea the other months.Even harder trying to stay in the "Cow Business".So my Wife does the best she can while I am gone.This is the main reason really giving AI/ET a serious thought.It has been a real challenge for me needless to say.
Euthanize is a word I know very well.But I have learn a lot the past year online.Hope and plan the make the World Brahman Congress 2008.Any thoughts and suggestions on quality control and making sure you get what your paying for going the AI/ET route.So your 100% sure the straw or embryo is from the cow and bull the breeder is selling you.Not to say there are a lot of dishonest people in the cattle business.Mistakes and human error is a factor too.I hear a ET Program has to be very tightly control to insure success.Lot of risk.

 

[KNERSIE]

I would start by looking within my own herd for donors. I am not saying the others aren't any good, but I know my own cattle. As far as conception, one time I put 3 eggs in, got 3 live healthy calves, all bulls. I have one cow I should've started flushing years ago but I got tunnel visioned on numbers. Every year she has trotted in the best calf but she has some marginal epd's. She will get flushed next season quite extensively. As far as bulls to use, I would use highly maternal, proven bulls. The one cow will get flushed to the bulls used previously on her since I already know it can work. My goal for embryos is to give my best cows more chances to reproduce themselves, sorta' even out the odds against the bulls if you will. It is very hard to find a balance between proven genetics and current "hot" sires, meaning, I can take somewhat of a chance on a new bull as long as they are used on my best cows. Thats probably not what some people will agree with but thats the way I try and find a balance.
Every herd has a "best cow", if none in your herd strike you as acceptable you probably won't be satisfied with any you can buy either.
I have been fortunate enough to become friends with a Jersey man who on occasion has some half Angus, half Jersey heifers I can get a hold of. They will get to catch some embryos from my cow in the spring if she does all right. (not as heifers, they are and were bred to an angus bull)

Just the way I do it,
Sizmic

I agree, look at your own best cows, there is a reason why they outperform the rest, they are adpted and in sync with your environment.

I also agree half jersey half british beef breed cows would make the ideal recipient.

A few years ago I had both jerseyXhereford and holsteinX hereford commecial cows. The jerseyX cows always weaned heavier calves than the holsteinX. Efficiency wise there was no comparison, but when the time came to sell them the holstein X brought twice what the jerseyX brought.

I also had a few angusX friesian cows that performed very similar to the jerseyXhereford