Gestation Length too short?

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44 and 45 are 3/4 sisters bred to the same AI bull on the same day for their first calves. 44 had a very small calf born 267 days later that never caught up. 45 had a normal calf born at 285 days and is the stout bull calf pictured at about 6 months old. A year later 44 has another early very small calf sired by a different AI bull. Two strikes for her. Both AI bulls have sired many calves - normal gestation and growth.
44 is looking to spread her wings and travel and has never been west of the Mississippi. Fully vaccinated. Looking to have a name and not just be a number. :)
Sound sto me like it just might be the cows problem.
But!
Wasnt both of her small calves heifers??
And the other was bulls?

My bwf mutt bull always threw small, heifer safe heifers! But bull calves always seemed to go longer and be much larger calves. I could almost tell it was gonna be a bull calf. The cow would spring and bag what seemed like forever b4 calving.

A control group of only 2 cows would be hard to make an informed decision. The bwf bull I described had 24 mamas at the time. 2 seasons.

Since you ai, I'd try a sexed semen for her next calf. Or perhaps a different bull?
 
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I had to put post 1 and post 16 together.

Was 44 bred to the same sire for both calves or not?


And I just got what you were saying about her needing a name! 🤣😂🤣😂
She was bred to a different bull the second time with similar results. She is already packing her bags for the trip. Really, she does appear to have plenty of milk. You could stop in Georgia to pick up some of those high efficiency cows there to finish the load out. She might hit the jackpot next time with a different breed bull with some hybrid vigor. I hear that third time is the charm.
Might be able to throw in a bale of ragweed hay and an old chunky partial bag of milk replacer if you want to bargain. :)
I think that "Peanut" would be a good name for the calf.
 
Well, my lil Rosy just had hers. Shes a black jersey/angus mini as best I can tell.
Calf ain't 40lbs tho.
Mama was bred to my hereford and I was real afraid she couldnt handle it. I bought the cow for basically nothing last year. She raised a big ol fat black heifer.
This year shes got a cute lil baldy!
I'd guess 60lbs or so
Notice mamas bug eyes? And shes aboot 2 feet shorter than anything else here.

Trade ya pair for pair! But you'll have to deliver! This cow would probly take a second calf. Makes oodles and gobs of milk...
20210926_134045.jpg
 
My cows liked to gestate extra long, 288 was herd average, with lots around 292-6, and as far as 305
I specifically chose a shorter gestation bull to try and get that down a bit, and it has helped.. 280 for heifers and 290 on old cows would work well for me.. One of my calves this year was born at 267 and wasn't a dink, herd average this year was 285
 
Weighed little "Peanut" today (pictured above). Born 14 days early at about 50 pounds. Was embarrassed to have such a low birth weight. At 3 months, I told my daughter/vet that we had to cut the little bull. She came to do that and told me that would be a mistake. That he was too good to cut. I agreed and he got a reprieve.
He is a chunk. But I was surprised when he weighed 810 pounds today at 223 days old. That is a 205 day adjusted weight of 749 pounds. His dam is 3 y/o. BIF says to use a 40 pound adjustment for bull calves from a 3 y/o dam. That puts his 205 day and age of dam adjusted weight at 789. Regardless of adjustments, he grew off pretty good. I guess I am going to keep the little cow as well. She was also a very low birth weight calf but has grown into a nice 3 y/o cow.
The bull calf I considered the "best" had an adjusted ww of 760.
 
I don't mind 70's or mid to low 80's but folks posting 90+ I don't want any part of ! My calves hit the ground vigorous and grow . I bought 25 registered black angus cows and have kept almost every heifer we have raised . We did sell one whole crop of spring heifers last year as yearlings . We have had no calving issues except 1 breach / backwards . We don't do pelvic scores cause we let our heifers get their growth before we breed them . Most calve at 2 + . I may lose a calf crop from my females but they calves w/o issues and breed back for their second calf. I'll take a 60 -70 lb live calf every day . My cows range from 1200 -1500 lbs on average . I take criticism from one neighbor for big cows . He says big cows eat too much ! I like big cows .
In Arkansas we kept 11/1200 pound cows, but in South Dakota we liked cows between 14 and 1600. I prefer big cows too.

If calves are born too small they won't take the cold. Calving seasons will need to be adjusted and small calves don't leave any room for variations.
 
Weighed little "Peanut" today (pictured above). Born 14 days early at about 50 pounds. Was embarrassed to have such a low birth weight. At 3 months, I told my daughter/vet that we had to cut the little bull. She came to do that and told me that would be a mistake. That he was too good to cut. I agreed and he got a reprieve.
He is a chunk. But I was surprised when he weighed 810 pounds today at 223 days old. That is a 205 day adjusted weight of 749 pounds. His dam is 3 y/o. BIF says to use a 40 pound adjustment for bull calves from a 3 y/o dam. That puts his 205 day and age of dam adjusted weight at 789. Regardless of adjustments, he grew off pretty good. I guess I am going to keep the little cow as well. She was also a very low birth weight calf but has grown into a nice 3 y/o cow.
The bull calf I considered the "best" had an adjusted ww of 760.
Sometimes it's nice to be proven wrong
 
Finished weighing and weaning my fall calves. Best average weaning weights I have ever had. Average weaning weights on the bull calves was 769. Average on the heifer calves was 686. Those are adjusted to 205 day and adjusted for age of dam. BIF makes adjustments for dams less than 5 years old and older than 10 years to level the field for comparison. Without the age of dam adjustments, average for bulls was 742 and average for heifers was 655 at 205 days.

Average gestation length this calf crop was 279 days with the shortest being 271 and the longest 286. Seems to me that gestation lengths have decreased since the old fullblood and fleck simmentals of the 70's and 80's - along with the reduced birth weights. Average birth weight on the calves was 73 pounds.

Hauled the last two cows away to a different pasture yesterday. Calves don't seem to care, but dams are vocal and restless today. These are a pair of 3 year olds that are 3/4 sisters. Cow in foreground is the dam of "Peanut" and the one in back has the heifer calf sired by the 1998 born Power Drive bull and is now bred to the 1986 born bull 600U. (She has a thing for older bulls). Real pleased with the condition of these two at weaning time. Two and three year old's sometimes struggle to maintain condition and breed on time. They have gained some weight since the grass greened up, but now face a summer on fescue. 4445.jpg
 
Congrats on the weaning weights Simme, especially impressive considering that's not supposed to even be possible in the south. Those are good weights anywhere.
I find it very interesting that you achieved that with low birth weights, it definitely gives me food for thought.
 
Congrats on the weaning weights Simme, especially impressive considering that's not supposed to even be possible in the south. Those are good weights anywhere.
I find it very interesting that you achieved that with low birth weights, it definitely gives me food for thought.
Thanks. Keep in mind that these calves are fall born (late Sept, early Oct so end of summer) in the south. I expect they would be higher birth weight if they were late winter/spring born or born further north. Cows are on endophyte fescue pasture which I suspect holds the birth weight back as well. I don't necessarily select for low birth weight, but to select against low bw limits the choices on available bulls these days. All my calves are AI sired. EPD's for birth weight on the cows are mostly breed average or higher but are trending down with the younger cows due to bull selection. I would be pleased if I could keep the birth weights in the 75 to 85 pound range for fall calves.

In regard to the weaning weights, I try to stay understocked. That means most of the year, I have plenty of grass. Since I AI breed, I try to increase my chances of getting them bred. My hay is purchased and is usually not good quality. I have read that an increasing level of nutrition will increase AI results for conception and early retention. Generally breed around New Years weekend, so increasing nutrition won't happen on hay alone. I feed a little commodity feed starting about 4-6 weeks prior to breeding and continuing for about 6 weeks after. Each pair gets about 3 pounds per day. I suspect the cow gets most of that. My cows are pretty good milkers. Not a lot of feed, but I am sure it contributes to the weaning weight. That's the full disclosure on weights.

I only have a few cows and any replacements come from my calves. So, I need to keep buying semen on bulls I have not used or at least not used recently. That is sort of a gamble. That pair of 3 year olds pictured suit me pretty good. Except for udder and feet, which are pretty important. They are not real bad, but at 3 years old should be better than they are. They are sired by Hooks Yellowstone - a bull that has at least one son in AI stud and has seen pretty good AI use himself. That bull has a pretty balanced set of EPD's except for STAY (longevity of daughters). That epd was ok when I first used him when he was about 6 years old. But is now in the bottom 20% of the breed - I suspect due to feet and udders. Data for "longevity of daughters" is going to start showing up when a bull is about 6 to 8 years old as daughters come into production and get a little age on them. I noticed in an ad for one of his sons a statement that the son's dam had a tidy udder with small teats. I guess this is a subtle way of hoping that his son did not inherit the udder quality from his sire. Point is that it is difficult to keep all traits in check and a constant struggle to make progress.

Cattle in the south can have those weaning weights. I think it is more about genetics, consistency and management than location. We are held back some by heat and humidity, but probably hold ourselves back some as well with other issues. I only have a few cows for my retirement hobby. Sample size and management are probably not in synch with most.
 
Where the truth of the gestational warp will be revealed is the length of time to mature growth and final mature weight and size.
Ebenezer, can you elaborate on this? I have gained quite a bit of insight over the years from your posts, so looking forward to your thoughts.
 

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