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Texan":6zetwl8x said:
Frankie":6zetwl8x said:
I have to admit, though, that it rubs me the wrong way when I see the organic people jumping on BSE to scare people away from eating non-organic beef. Not everyone can afford to buy organic beef. If they shy away from regular beef and eat chicken instead, it hurts the beef industry as a whole.
:clap: Great point, Frankie. I couldn't agree more.

I guess I'll never understand the driving force behind the 'grass-fed hippies' as BP used to appropriately refer to them.They seem to have a blind eye to the south. Why would someone put all of their eggs in the grass-fed basket when there is no way that we can ever produce those products as cheaply as they can in South America?

If (when?) FMD issues ever get resolved, it seems to me that in a few years we will likely be overwhelmed with grass-fed beef from south of the equator. Beef that can be produced for a fraction of what we do it for here. Throw in an M-COOL like so many are crying for. Add a little bit of marketing philosophy similar to the New Zealand Lamb game. Seems to me like the American grass-fed consumer will settle for nothing less than Juan Valdez's All-Natural Product of Brazil. Especially when it can be produced cheaper.

Seems like a no-win situation to me. The grass-fed market may be increasing. But it looks to me like it would only be a temporary market to penetrate at best. Simply because of competition from the south. Our domestic beef industry is based on quality products. Not quality grade, necessarily, but grain fed quality. I think we should focus our energies on capitalizing on what we do best---the best quality beef in the world.

The efficient cow works for all of us. I certainly don't have any problem with her. I just don't see why we can't have her, as well as progeny from her that will feed out to fit our marketplace. I think South America will be the 900 pound grass-fed gorilla sooner rather than later. Why would anyone want to build their genetics around a product that Brazil can beat us at?

I fail to see why you think Brazil can produce grass fed beef cheaper than the U.S. IF you own your land and cattle outright and aren't playing with borrowed money (and a lot of the U.S. is priced high enough now that buying the ground on credit doesn't pencil out...now). Diesal is not cheaper down there. Tractors aren't cheaper down there. We both can buy the same Brazilian gaucho wire. We have to pay more for labor obviously (assuming we are big enough that we need to pay for labor); but they have to pay to transport it over the water. There only advantage is that they can pack it for less.
 
From Beef Magazine:

Already boasting the planet's largest commercial cattle herd, Brazil is clearly a formidable player in today's international beef market. But, with 165 million cattle currently grazing 370 million acres, Brazil could put another 180 million-200 million acres into production — "without cutting down a single tree," as Pratini de Moraes says. These areas of undeveloped savanna equal the size of France and Germany — or Texas and New Mexico.

The Brazilian beef story grows more ominous.

*

Production costs are a third to half of what American ranchers face. Brazil's costs are better compared to Australia's grass-fed beef system, however, but even then, Brazil wins out — at a 15% lower cost of production.
*

Brazil is close to removing foot-and-mouth disease (FMD) as an export impediment. Its economy and political system are relatively stable. And recently, Brazil has filled the beef production void left after Argentina's economy and political system crashed last fall.
*

Beef exports, along with sugar, orange juice, coffee, soybeans, poultry and pork, are seen as Brazil's pass into First World status.

"Europe is our biggest trade partner, and we will do everything possible to grow those markets," says Pratini de Moraes. "But, we also know there are other areas where we can gain markets for our beef and other agricultural commodities."

He's talking about the U.S., and the Brazilian agriculture minister has been in close dialog with U.S. agricultural and trade officials on market access, gradual elimination of export subsidies and revision of internal supports where they affect external markets.

How all this bodes for U.S. beef producers is becoming very clear.
 
I've been breeding down my Red Angus for grass. Frame score around 2. Calf birth weight 76#. weaned at 6 months at 498#. I'll see how long to finish, about 1100#. So far I am happy with the results. All on grass.
 
Production costs are a third to half of what American ranchers face.

We simply can't raise beef cheaper than Brazil. But they don't have the genetics or the feed to produce the high quality beef that we produce here in the US. I'm with Doc; I don't understand why a US producer would give up raising high quality beef to compete with Brazil, Mexico, etc. But, again, that's just me.
 
I agree Frankie. I don't think that Brazillian beef production is going to be the downfall of the North American rancher. To me it's like saying that the NBA is going to be the downfall of the NFL. We're talking two very different systems, different production and different products. I do believe that I will always continue to find ways to lower my cost of production, to try and solidify the sustainability of our ranch. But I also believe that we'll be producing a product that will always be in demand.
 
Frankie":1jxusnnl said:
Production costs are a third to half of what American ranchers face.

We simply can't raise beef cheaper than Brazil. But they don't have the genetics or the feed to produce the high quality beef that we produce here in the US. I'm with Doc; I don't understand why a US producer would give up raising high quality beef to compete with Brazil, Mexico, etc. But, again, that's just me.

It is NOT our decision. The consumer descides what sells. IF the consumer wants ungraded stuff that is $3.00 a lb less, more power to them. If they want marbled "CHB", "CAB", USDA Choice, USDA Angus, "Laura's Lean", or grass fattened "Burt's beef", Nolan Ryan's, or "Product of Brazil" that is THEIR decision and this industry will give it to them. We will ultimately produce what we get paid to produce. If that means grass fattened frame 3 black baldies or frame 5 Choice Angus-cross or super lean heavy muscled frame 7 Limousins, Wagyus, or grain fed Bison. If they pay us a premium (or don't pay us a premium) the consumer will descide what we raise ultimately. It is possible that we need to be flexible in this business and accept that giving the consumer the most possible choices is better for all of us than if we just sell commodity beef.
 
I agree with you also Brandonm2, to a point. I will always be flexible in what I produce, but I do not for a moment think that chasing the fads by trying to always have a supply of what's hot is a sustainably profitable practice.
 
I did not suggest chasing fads. I was just pointing out that there MIGHT not be one and only one for everyone in this country to produce beef and that ultimately the market will shake out the people who are producing a product that the market does not want. I am NOT endorsing the grass fattened guys. I don't know whether they will succeed or not. I just don't see how their existence is a threat to somebody who is selling good CAB market steers.
 
Frankie wrote:
But they don't have the genetics or the feed to produce the high quality beef that we produce here in the US.
Ah but Frankie they DO have the feed and they can raise that cheaper too. Who do you think are the soybean/other grain farmers in the U.S. are having to compete with?

I know of many shipments of semen that have gone south also. Lots and lots of it.

Brazil and Argentina, among others,(when they get the Hoof and Mouth thing under control) will be our greastest nemesis. There are several big U.S. producers who are investing in farm land and cattle down there as we speak.

I opposed CAFTA because we will not be able to impose a tariff on imports to level the playing field against these lower cost countries either.

"New World Order", here we come!!!!!!!!
 
PC, I don't think raising beef that the consumer demands is a fad. Unless it goes right off the wall like the baby beef did years ago.
 
I agree SEC. What the consumer wants is not a fad. I meant the extremes of selling just for the sake of selling. We've all seen guys who's programs have gone from one end of the spectrum to the other. Those are the ones I was referring to.
 
MikeC":26kc7r2m said:
Brazil and Argentina, among others,(when they get the Hoof and Mouth thing under control) will be our greastest nemesis. There are several big U.S. producers who are investing in farm land and cattle down there as we speak.
Exactly right, Mike. And Cactus Feeders is already operating a feedlot in Argentina. You can bet your ass that Paul Engler has his eyes on further expansion in South America. Especially if he can get decent quality grain fed beef produced and slaughtered down there and get it into US coolers cheaper than he can from his feedlots here.

South America isn't just a threat to grass-fed producers. It's something that all of us need to be watching. The US producer, the Canucks and even Australians all have something to lose when Brazil gets online full blast.
 
Texan":t2zseqev said:
MikeC":t2zseqev said:
Brazil and Argentina, among others,(when they get the Hoof and Mouth thing under control) will be our greastest nemesis. There are several big U.S. producers who are investing in farm land and cattle down there as we speak.
Exactly right, Mike. And Cactus Feeders is already operating a feedlot in Argentina. You can bet your ass that Paul Engler has his eyes on further expansion in South America. Especially if he can get decent quality grain fed beef produced and slaughtered down there and get it into US coolers cheaper than he can from his feedlots here.

South America isn't just a threat to grass-fed producers. It's something that all of us need to be watching. The US producer, the Canucks and even Australians all have something to lose when Brazil gets online full blast.

Wow. I didn't know about the Cactus operation there. Tyson has recently stated that they were looking toward investments outside the U.S. also. I figure they have been looking south for some time now.

You are exactly correct about fed cattle coming from S.A. But just "watching" is not gonna be enough...............
 
KMacGinley":228qr8yt said:
I guess the question is "What is good genetics"? Are they the frame 3 cattle that they are always pushing? or can larger cattle also finish on grass?

They prefer frame score 5. I have been looking into grass finishing but the genetics I have at this time will not work for such an operation. Don't know if I want to make changes or not. If it were profitable in the long run, yes I would.
 
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. Is this talk about the frame scores going to 2-3s not taking us back to the 1950's and 60's? Personally I think our frame scores and finished weights are just about right (FS4.5-5 and 1150-1250#). My feeling is we need to optimize rate of gain, feed conversion, yeild grade, and minimize costs to get the right product to the consumer. If this is grass-fed so be it. The only real problem I have with grass-fed is how can I do it with the type of climate that I live in.

If some of you don't think South America is going to be able to compete with us in world beef market you are dead wrong. They have the genetics, the feed, and the know how. The one thing they lack is the shipping infastructor which is changing rapidly.
 
Angus Guy":1op13sgm said:
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. Is this talk about the frame scores going to 2-3s not taking us back to the 1950's and 60's? Personally I think our frame scores and finished weights are just about right (FS4.5-5 and 1150-1250#). My feeling is we need to optimize rate of gain, feed conversion, yeild grade, and minimize costs to get the right product to the consumer. If this is grass-fed so be it. The only real problem I have with grass-fed is how can I do it with the type of climate that I live in.

If some of you don't think South America is going to be able to compete with us in world beef market you are dead wrong. They have the genetics, the feed, and the know how. The one thing they lack is the shipping infastructor which is changing rapidly.

I have spent the last couple weeks talking to different guys about grass fininshing. None of them have said anything about frame scores that small. From what they have been telling me they prefer 5 frame score.
 

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