Genetics?

[FFAgal]

Ok, I've found this board to be very helpful with alot of different issues. I have not posted alot here unless I have a problem that I can't find an answer to anywhere else and ALL of the advice has been excellent. To make a long story short, we have lost 7 calves this year (a totally new thing for us) and we are wondering if maybe our new bull from last year could be the problem. There are really a lot of different times/ways we seem to have lost the calves, but we lost over half to what seems to be a heart attack! An example for one was a 3 day old calf (last to leave the pasture) was be rotated to another pasture and died in the cattle lane! No fore warning, just stopped where is was and died. We have not had a vet to do an autopsy on any of them yet, but are strongly considering it, if we lose any more. We run a 40 cow/calf operation and this has been our worst year! I'm not going to say where our bull came from, but he is registered (Red Angus). With the differences we are seeing in birth weights and the problems we have been having we were just wondering if anyone else out there is having same/like problems this year.

 

[msscamp]

Are you feeding these cattle anything besides grass?

 

[WORANCH]

I would have a vet cut one open .It's the only way to be sure.

But he might have to do some blood work also .

 

[Beefy]

it could be a heart murmur. could you give more details about the other calves like at what age and under what circumstances they died?

 

[txag]

Is it a bull calf or heifer calf. My friend had the same thing one year. Every bull calf he had born out of his bull died and every heifer calf lived. He called the vet out and the vet said that bull has a congenital heart defect that he is passing on to his male offspring. My friend was like you gotta be kidding me and was skeptical. The vet said we will go up here in 10 minutes and Ill cut it open and show you that this calf has holes in its heart. Sure enough the vet goes up there and cuts it open removes the heart and shows my friend all the holes in it. There were 4 large holes in it large enough to put your fingers through. He told my friend every bull calf you have born on this place will die out of that bull and every heifer calf will live. He said my suggestion would be send that bull to McDonalds so my friend did. Im wondering if you might be having the same issue.

that's interesting. there was another member who once mentioned the EXACT same thing. i can't remember whether that member was CommercialCattlemanTN or TennCattleMan57. maybe you know them?

 

[txag]

Maybe not

that's probably a good thing. this one sounds like a bad dude:

Ive fought and beaten many a man in my life and would do so again at the drop of a hat because I like it. In my younger days I fought anyone anywhere anytime. Im still game for good confrontations even at my ripe old age of 55.

 

[Beefy]

that makes sense..

 

[WORANCH]

that makes sense..

:lol: :lol:

 

[txag]

In fact you are correct it was his post cuz I went on and found it and stole it and then posted it here and tweaked it a bit. Im trying to help this lady out and that was about the only good post that clown ever made so i figured it would fit in here. Didnt mean to confuse anyone.

FFAgal, sorry to derail your post. i don't think anyone is going to be able to give you a definite answer from what you've told us. losing one isn't always reason enough to call a vet for a post, but when there's a second or a third and especially a seventh :shock: , i'd be looking for answers. if you lose another one, call the vet!

 

[El_Putzo]

In fact you are correct it was his post cuz I went on and found it and stole it and then posted it here and tweaked it a bit. Im trying to help this lady out and that was about the only good post that clown ever made so i figured it would fit in here. Didnt mean to confuse anyone.

Good Grief, Anyone else smell a rat? I haven't seen anyone come up with such a bogus, backpeddling story in a very long time. TennCattleman57, or whoever you are, why don't you just come out of the closet? It's pretty obvious that Txag and pretty much everyone else has you figured out. :roll: :roll:

 

[randiliana]

In fact you are correct it was his post cuz I went on and found it and stole it and then posted it here and tweaked it a bit. Im trying to help this lady out and that was about the only good post that clown ever made so i figured it would fit in here. Didnt mean to confuse anyone.

Good Grief, Anyone else smell a rat? I haven't seen anyone come up with such a bogus, backpeddling story in a very long time. TennCattleman57, or whoever you are, why don't you just come out of the closet? It's pretty obvious that Txag and pretty much everyone else has you figured out. :roll: :roll:

You know, I open up a lot of posts that I think might be quite interesting and/or I may be able to offer an answer. BUT, it is getting kinda annoying to find this type of hijacking whenever TTCLM makes a reply, especially if it could be a useful one!! Who cares who originally posted about the heart defect, if it is a possibility then why do we have to listen to all this bickering??

Now, I can understand the arguing and such when his suggestion is something that may get someone in trouble, or if it is totally out to lunch, but really, this is getting to be pretty childish.......

 

[El_Putzo]

You know, I open up a lot of posts that I think might be quite interesting and/or I may be able to offer an answer. BUT, it is getting kinda annoying to find this type of hijacking whenever TTCLM makes a reply, especially if it could be a useful one!! Who cares who originally posted about the heart defect, if it is a possibility then why do we have to listen to all this bickering??

Now, I can understand the arguing and such when his suggestion is something that may get someone in trouble, or if it is totally out to lunch, but really, this is getting to be pretty childish.......

Randi,

Since you obviously haven't been here long enough to know about the antics of TTCLM (TCM57), I'm going to take the high road here and just say thanks so much for your interesting opinion about my opinion. You are very right, although now it seems that we both owe FFAgal an apology as NEITHER of us answered the question. Hijacking the thread was not my original intent, only to call a spade a spade. My apologies FFAgal.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I know I sound like a broken record - but Selenium deficencies can cause many deaths - sudden and/or long drawn out ones. SE affects large muscles. If the calf was SE deficient, any sudden exertion can cause immediate death.
This used to be the "telltale" sign of White Muscle Disease (SE deficiency). Somewhat healthy calf, gets up & runs & falls over dead. Heart and/or lungs couldn't handle the exertion.

And, I can't believe you haven't done any kind of autopsy or testing prior to SEVEN dead calves. Two may be unusual - but three unknown deaths and beyond are needing answers.

 

[got_cows?]

People on this board and your vet can give you ideas or educated guesses. The only sure way to know what's going on in your herd is to have an autopsy. Even though it seems like throwing good money after bad if you know what you're dealing with you can take steps to prevent it or correct the problem that's already there.
You could spend a lot of money treating your cattle for a multitude of things that they may or may not have. Spend your money once and have one of your calves autopsied. It's worth every penny.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[randiliana]

I have been thinking on this one a bit, and there are many things that can kill a calf. It could be a genetic default, it could be a poison such as lead? it could be a disease, it could be a mineral deficiency..... There are so many things that it could be that the only way to be sure is to get a post mortem done on the calves.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

The money lost by the deaths of 7 calves will far outweigh the money spent on one necropsy. That is money well spent, especially if can prevent the loss of more calves (translates into loss of more $$$).

Katherine

 

[memanpa]

Is it a bull calf or heifer calf. My friend had the same thing one year. Every bull calf he had born out of his bull died and every heifer calf lived. He called the vet out and the vet said that bull has a congenital heart defect that he is passing on to his male offspring. My friend was like you gotta be kidding me and was skeptical. The vet said we will go up here in 10 minutes and Ill cut it open and show you that this calf has holes in its heart. Sure enough the vet goes up there and cuts it open removes the heart and shows my friend all the holes in it. There were 4 large holes in it large enough to put your fingers through. He told my friend every bull calf you have born on this place will die out of that bull and every heifer calf will live. He said my suggestion would be send that bull to McDonalds so my friend did. Im wondering if you might be having the same issue.

that's interesting. there was another member who once mentioned the EXACT same thing. i can't remember whether that member was CommercialCattlemanTN or TennCattleMan57. maybe you know them?

Hey do not forget CATTLEMANFROMOUTERSPACE,
i had thought i was the only one who felt that this is the one and ONLY blame it on his son poster

 

[memanpa]

Yeah sounds like one to me lol. Im from Clinton Tennessee. If I remember correctly when i was a guest here before I actually registered if I recall correctly wasnt he from Dayton Tennessee? Weird people down there. What do you expect I mean I hear tell thats where they had the "Scopes Monkey Trial" Carl Ray Johnson is my name. I dont recall what that guys name was. In fact you are correct it was his post cuz I went on and found it and stole it and then posted it here and tweaked it a bit. Im trying to help this lady out and that was about the only good post that clown ever made so i figured it would fit in here. Didnt mean to confuse anyone.

yea and cows fly too,
digging a deeper hole all the time

 

[El_Putzo]

Careful Memanpa, some people don't like it when you call people out like that and derail the post.