Gelbvieh Bull EPD's

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HOSS

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How does the Gelbvieh BW EPD's compare to angus? For instance.....If you have a GV bull with a BW of +2.5 is that compareable to a +2.5 BW on an angus bull or is it more like a +1.5 on an angus bull? I have a group of 10 BA heifers and would like to put a GV bull on them and I am fishing for an optimum BW epd for calving ease while still picking up the vigor. I may want to retain some heifers also.
 

Frankie

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HOSS":ar6koay0 said:
How does the Gelbvieh BW EPD's compare to angus? For instance.....If you have a GV bull with a BW of +2.5 is that compareable to a +2.5 BW on an angus bull or is it more like a +1.5 on an angus bull? I have a group of 10 BA heifers and would like to put a GV bull on them and I am fishing for an optimum BW epd for calving ease while still picking up the vigor. I may want to retain some heifers also.

Here's a link to MARC's across breed EPDs. To compare an Angus bull and Gelbvieh bull, you add 0 to the Angus bull's BW EPD and add 4.7 to the Gelbvieh bull's BW EPD. The Angus Assn recommends using a bull with a BW EPD of less than 3 on first calf heifers. So to match an Angus bull's 3 BW EPD, you'd need a negative (-)1.7 for Gelbvieh. The Gelbiveh Assn may have recommendations, too. I'd check their site.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/Pl ... 06News.pdf
 
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HOSS

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So in theory I would need to use a Gelbvieh bull with a -1.7 BW to be equal to using an Angus bull with a BW of 0 if used on the same heifers. :eek: I was under the understanding that the Gelbvieh bulls had lower birth weights than angus over-all. So to insure easier calving on BA heifers I am better off using a 0 BW angus bull then a -.5 BW Gelbvieh.........or am I missing something here :help:
 

Frankie

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HOSS":1dw6b7jy said:
So in theory I would need to use a Gelbvieh bull with a -1.7 BW to be equal to using an Angus bull with a BW of 0 if used on the same heifers. :eek: I was under the understanding that the Gelbvieh bulls had lower birth weights than angus over-all. So to insure easier calving on BA heifers I am better off using a 0 BW angus bull then a -.5 BW Gelbvieh.........or am I missing something here :help:

No. You need to use a -1.7 Gelbvieh bull to equal an Angus with a 3 BW EPD. Look at the link. To use this chart to compare bulls of different breeds, you add the EPD of the bull you're interested in to the adjustment factor in the chart. Angus has an adjustment of 0. So if you use an Angus bull with an EPD of 0, there's no adjustment. If you use a Gelbvieh with a BW EPD of 0, you add the 4.7 adjustment.

And yes. You'd need a -4.7 Gelbvieh to equal an Angus with a 0 BW EPD, according to this MARC chart.

I can't speak for calving ease in Gelbviehs, but I seriously doubt they're easier calving than Angus. That's why I suggest you talk with someone from the breed assn or check out their website and see if they have a recommendation about BW EPDs to use on heifers.
 

UG

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Hoss,

We've been using Gelbvieh genetics (via AI) for over ten years. Relative to most other continental breeds I would say that Gelbvieh are easier calving. If my memory is correct, I believe that research at the Meat Animal Research Center (MARC) confirms this. However, the average Gelbvieh bull is not as easy calving as the average Angus bull.

From our experiences with birth weights of the two breeds, I feel that the MARC values for comparing Angus and Gelbvieh are pretty accurate.

If you are going to breed your Angus heifers via AI, a few easy calving Gelbvieh bulls to consider are Bennett Hallmark, Atlas, and Extra. You'll give up some muscle and performance relative to the average Gelbvieh bull, but that is typical of nearly all calving ease bulls.[/img]
 

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+2.5 GV BW EPD = +7.2 AN BW EPD

2.5 + 4.7 = 7.2
 

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UG":c4cyp4e1 said:
Hoss,

We've been using Gelbvieh genetics (via AI) for over ten years. Relative to most other continental breeds I would say that Gelbvieh are easier calving. If my memory is correct, I believe that research at the Meat Animal Research Center (MARC) confirms this. However, the average Gelbvieh bull is not as easy calving as the average Angus bull.

the across breed adjustments have nothing to do with actual breed differences. they are only conversions from one EPD to another.
 

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HOSS
Are you planning on AI or buying a young unproven son of a calving ease bull?
I have used Gv on all my Pb. Gv and commercial heifers, I generally don't breed black i prefer the reds. Boo Boo from ABS has worked well for me he is hetero black and hetero polled but he calves easily and is proven, as well his females are make good replacements from what i have and have seen. The steers are pretty good too thick, deep with a good hip. Althought he isn't the hot new black bloodline there is something to be said for a proven consistant AI sire. As for reds i used independance on heifers for this calf crop and he has been a super heifer bull for me i have yet to touch one and they seem to be vigorous at birth, they get up and suck quickly as far as replacements i'll see what the heifers look like this fall. Hopefully this helps you. I'm not a big numbers guy the actual animal is the important thing to me i have seen and used some good producing bulls with terrible numbers as far as using a son of a bull there will be some variance.
 
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HOSS

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skcatlman":3gga25b3 said:
HOSS
Are you planning on AI or buying a young unproven son of a calving ease bull?
I have used Gv on all my Pb. Gv and commercial heifers, I generally don't breed black i prefer the reds. Boo Boo from ABS has worked well for me he is hetero black and hetero polled but he calves easily and is proven, as well his females are make good replacements from what i have and have seen. The steers are pretty good too thick, deep with a good hip. Althought he isn't the hot new black bloodline there is something to be said for a proven consistant AI sire. As for reds i used independance on heifers for this calf crop and he has been a super heifer bull for me i have yet to touch one and they seem to be vigorous at birth, they get up and suck quickly as far as replacements i'll see what the heifers look like this fall. Hopefully this helps you. I'm not a big numbers guy the actual animal is the important thing to me i have seen and used some good producing bulls with terrible numbers as far as using a son of a bull there will be some variance.

I was looking at a young unproven bull AI'd out of FHG FLYING H EXTRA 150D. He of course has low accuracies but low BW (Top 5%) and great CE (Top 15%) and his CED is in the top 40%. He is lacking in other areas however. I am looking at the extended pedigree and the growth EPD's seem to be better there. I am wanting a good heifer bull to cross on my BA heifers. I have a semi-low BW angus bull now but his body weight is at about 2000 pounds and I am reluctant to put him on 8-900 pound heifers this summer.
 

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HOSS":3g1ntweq said:
skcatlman":3g1ntweq said:
HOSS
Are you planning on AI or buying a young unproven son of a calving ease bull?
I have used Gv on all my Pb. Gv and commercial heifers, I generally don't breed black i prefer the reds. Boo Boo from ABS has worked well for me he is hetero black and hetero polled but he calves easily and is proven, as well his females are make good replacements from what i have and have seen. The steers are pretty good too thick, deep with a good hip. Althought he isn't the hot new black bloodline there is something to be said for a proven consistant AI sire. As for reds i used independance on heifers for this calf crop and he has been a super heifer bull for me i have yet to touch one and they seem to be vigorous at birth, they get up and suck quickly as far as replacements i'll see what the heifers look like this fall. Hopefully this helps you. I'm not a big numbers guy the actual animal is the important thing to me i have seen and used some good producing bulls with terrible numbers as far as using a son of a bull there will be some variance.

I was looking at a young unproven bull AI'd out of FHG FLYING H EXTRA 150D. He of course has low accuracies but low BW (Top 5%) and great CE (Top 15%) and his CED is in the top 40%. He is lacking in other areas however. I am looking at the extended pedigree and the growth EPD's seem to be better there. I am wanting a good heifer bull to cross on my BA heifers. I have a semi-low BW angus bull now but his body weight is at about 2000 pounds and I am reluctant to put him on 8-900 pound heifers this summer.

If you're looking at a young bull with low accuracies, investigate his sire, grandsire, his momma's sire and grandsire, etc. before you use him. There might be a high BW EPD animal lurking in his background that will jump out and bite you when the calves start hitting the ground. Good luck....
 

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I bred 1 heifer to a Gel bull with EPD CE of 105 and a BW of 0.9. We pulled the calf. The next year I bred the same Gel bull to 4 heifers 3 had their calves okay the fourth we found her calf dead. It was a large calf. So we thought that the heifer had trouble calving and lost the calf. We use the Gel on our mature cows and have not had a problem.
 

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If you only have 10 hfrs to breed i would suggest going AI. Synchronze them and get a AI technician in if one is close. Going from the books a average tech will get 60 - 65% on the first go and if he/she hits that again second go that leaves maybe one heifer for the bull, if you are lucky he/she will get a better conception rate and when you work it out alot less cost than buying a bull for only 10 head. Last year i custom AI bred for a neighbor 20 heifers that were sycned and he got a great rate, like always when i AI for someone else they get a better conceptiuon rate than at home 19 hfrs struck on the first round. As well you can use a proven calving ease bull that will give some performance on the back end. Up here one ABS tech is charging flat rates including semen from proven bulls on commercial cows of $35 per head for small groups sycned. Just some food for thought.
 

4Trancher

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Ok, i am trying to follow the Marc data to try to convert the Angus bulls EPDs to Gelbvieh EPDs and just not getting there. I have a balancer bull out of Bon View New Design 878 topside and JRI Barbie ET bottomside
Balancer Bull EPD's
http://www.gelbvieh.org/search/animalin ... AMGV874934
the balancer bull's BW EPD is 1.1, his sire (angus epd) BW is +1.5 and dam's (Gelbvieh EPD) BW is 5.5. By using the 4.7 BW adjustment as indicated in Marc data, I would add 4.7+5.5=10.2 Angus Epd. Then I would add 1.5 BW from the sire to the equation which equals 11.7 angus epd or by taking the 4.7 adjustment back off i should be at 7 gelbvieh BW epd, correct?? Yet the actual calf epd is 1.1?? Am I missing something here??

Sire EPD's
http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_dtl ... 43405B4042
Dam EPD's
http://www.gelbvieh.org/search/animalin ... AMGV428644
Marc Data
http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/Pl ... 06News.pdf
 

Frankie

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4Trancher":363esfg9 said:
Ok, i am trying to follow the Marc data to try to convert the Angus bulls EPDs to Gelbvieh EPDs and just not getting there. I have a balancer bull out of Bon View New Design 878 topside and JRI Barbie ET bottomside
Balancer Bull EPD's
http://www.gelbvieh.org/search/animalin ... AMGV874934
the balancer bull's BW EPD is 1.1, his sire (angus epd) BW is +1.5 and dam's (Gelbvieh EPD) BW is 5.5. By using the 4.7 BW adjustment as indicated in Marc data, I would add 4.7+5.5=10.2 Angus Epd. Then I would add 1.5 BW from the sire to the equation which equals 11.7 angus epd or by taking the 4.7 adjustment back off i should be at 7 gelbvieh BW epd, correct?? Yet the actual calf epd is 1.1?? Am I missing something here??

Sire EPD's
http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_dtl ... 43405B4042
Dam EPD's
http://www.gelbvieh.org/search/animalin ... AMGV428644
Marc Data
http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/Pl ... 06News.pdf

There are no across breed adjustments for Balancer bulls. You're on your own.
 
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