Galloway Bull-Updated Pics

[ANAZAZI]

OK. With herefords, I like scurs and they can be registered as polled. Very nice slick trick. Hopefully, my hunch is correct and scurs outperform non-scurs.

Horn likely to outperform scurs. :roll:

 

[HerefordSire]

OK. With herefords, I like scurs and they can be registered as polled. Very nice slick trick. Hopefully, my hunch is correct and scurs outperform non-scurs.

Horn likely to outperform scurs. :roll:

Never heard that one other than milk production.

 

[hillsdown]

How can scurs be registered as polled. If your association allows scurs there usually is a spot for it ie, horned ,polled or scurred.

 

[HerefordSire]

How can scurs be registered as polled. If your association allows scurs there usually is a spot for it ie, horned ,polled or scurred.

The first polled Hereford was scurred...

A bull called Giant was the breed's foundation sire. He was born May 3, 1899, in the herd of OF. Nelson of Hiawatha, Kan., northwest of Kansas City. Giant was a scurred bull (meaning he had small imperfectly formed horns that were not attached to the skull), but most of his oftspring were polled. Nelson received an inquiry from Warren Gammon, in search of naturally hornless registered Herefords, shortly after the bull had been returner to Nelson by a commercial cattleman who was dissatisfied by the hornless trait in Giant and his offspring. Giant was used by Gammon for several years and then sold to G.E.Ricker of Ashland, Neb.

http://www.benttreefarms.com/SouthPoll/Hbreed.html

Theoretical increased performance...

Scurred Herefords represent some of the best genetics available to Hereford breeders. This is due in part to the fact that scurred Herefords represent a form of in-breed heterosis. The heterosis found in scurred Herefords probably makes them slightly superior on average to homozygous horned or homozygous polled Herefords. This is not to say that all scurred cattle are automatically superior to all homozygous horned or polled cattle, but it does contend that the average performance of all scurred cattle would be slightly higher than the average performance of homozygous polled or horned cattle for many important traits.

http://www.witherspoonsherefords.com/WNH_WEB7.HTM

 

[hillsdown]

HS it is not the same you need to register as scurred. I have/had a clean up bull the same, scurred, but has thrown only polled except on a few cows the calves have been scurred. However his registration papers say scurred because he is not polled ,he is scurred and to say he is polled is to lie. FWIW...

 

[HerefordSire]

HS it is not the same you need to register as scurred. I have/had a clean up bull the same, scurred, but has thrown only polled except on a few cows the calves have been scurred. However his registration papers say scurred because he is not polled ,he is scurred and to say he is polled is to lie. FWIW...

Check this famous bull out. Is he polled or scurred?

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... E&9=50505D

There is no reference to scurs...

Rule 2. ELIGIBILITY: To be eligible for entry in the American
Hereford Record, an animal must be the offspring of registered
parents, both of which have been previously recorded in the
American Hereford Record. Both horned and polled Herefords
are eligible for entry into the record.

http://www.hereford.org/_Hereford/Docum ... esRegs.pdf

 

[gallowaygirl]

Wow, didn't think this would be such a big topic! Anyways, to everyone, animals that have scurs are still considered POLLED. Genetic tests that identify whether an animal is polled or horned will always show a scurred animal as polled, not horned, or make any other note to know if the animal is scurred or not. And, while you make a good point of animals with scurs being better, I don't know if that would ring true if tests were done or not. My best 2yr heifer and yearling bull both have scurs, but we also have had calves with scurs that weren't very impressive (due to the old bulls genetics)

The only way every calf she has produced is scurred would be if all her calves were BULLS or any heifer born to her was sired by a bull with scurs.
An animal cannot be "strongly "scurred". You have just been "unlucky" that she has passed her scur gene onto her offspring.

And yes Jeanne, you are right. Every calf she has ever produced for us has been a bull. (Just one other reason I think she should leave the place) We are going to give her one more chance with the new bull to see if her stats change.

Thanks for all the input!!

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Scurred cattle ARE polled cattle. If they were horned, you would never know they carried the scur gene because it would not be "visable". Scurs, polled and horns are 3 seperate sets of genes.
Cattle that are scurred are generally referred to as Polled/Scurred (because they are BOTH).
I was surprised to hear that a breed association won't register scurred cattle. Will they registered them if they are horned? or do they all have to be CLEAN polled (as we refer to polled cattle that don't have scurs).

 

[gallowaygirl]

No. Our breed association will only register CLEAN POLLED animals, those without scurs. This is because the Galloway is supposed to poll any breed out, EVERY single time. They should never under any circumstances, have scurs, horns, or anything similar to them.

 

[ANAZAZI]

No. Our breed association will only register CLEAN POLLED animals, those without scurs. This is because the Galloway is supposed to poll any breed out, EVERY single time. They should never under any circumstances, have scurs, horns, or anything similar to them.

From what I read, the galloways have been bred for the polled trait for several centuries. It seems highly unlikely that fullbloods that trace back that far would carry a gene that shows in all carrier bulls. That other breeder is not serious about the breed.

 

[ANAZAZI]

OK. With herefords, I like scurs and they can be registered as polled. Very nice slick trick. Hopefully, my hunch is correct and scurs outperform non-scurs.

Horn likely to outperform scurs. :roll:

Never heard that one other than milk production.

Very true in some dairy breeds, because the polled are so rare that they are not culled as hard as the horned.
Some beef breeders have sacrificed some muscle to gett polled cattle, usually by adding a wee bit of black funnel butt into the breed (the obvios disadvantages of this practice have often been compensated in latter years by good breeders in several breeds)
Otherwise my blanket statement is not very called for.

 

[gallowaygirl]

Yes, that was the problem, the original breeder. We are unsure how, but believe that somehow she was doing some of her own "up-breeding" before the registry required DNA testing on all registered bulls. It also explained why my bull "changed color" after he was born to the funny roan-blue he is in the pictures I posted the beginning of this thread. It's sad, because we have a lot of respect for the breed and its characteristics and don't appreciate someone trying to do their own thing and then pass off the duds to us, or anyone else for that matter. All I can say is that if someone comes to me looking for animals, I WILL NOT forward them on to this breeder, I may even say something negative to keep people from buying tainted animals.

 

[purecountry]

Been awhile since I was on here folks, but great to see some Galloway fans in the mix. Your old bull looked, well.....old. Your new guy is an improvement, but I think you still need to look alot higher than him. He's good, but not great. I'd look for more muscle in the rump, and depth in the body and flank. Just my opinion.

Out of curiosity, where did you get him?

 

[gallowaygirl]

Been awhile since I was on here folks, but great to see some Galloway fans in the mix. Your old bull looked, well.....old. Your new guy is an improvement, but I think you still need to look alot higher than him. He's good, but not great. I'd look for more muscle in the rump, and depth in the body and flank. Just my opinion.

Out of curiosity, where did you get him?

Yes, I know that he isn't the greatest, but he was a big step up from the previous bull (he wasn't actually OLD, he was only 7). He also was the closest thing next to driving three days to East Montana (we are in NW Washington) We got him from a breeder in Cle Elum, WA. They run mainly a commercial herd with a handful of purebreds. We are continuing to look for something, but the availability on these guys isn't like it is for Angus or Hereford, or anything else. There are only like 6 AI sires to choose from, and so far we have had a hard time getting cows to settle that way.

Anyways, rambling, we are still looking. We are actually going to NILE in October and may meet breeder's there that have upcoming bull calves or yearling/2yr prospects available. Thanks for the input though! Great to have someone else who knows about them!

ETA: (Just visited your website) Of course, down here in the states we don't have people as fabulous as Randy Kaiser raising bulls. On a side note, we just got 2 cows/2 heifers from George Ramsay, a friend of Randy. Love your bull, he is good example of the breed, and what most of us are striving for. We really got jupped by the woman we originally got our animals from, and, instead of selling 20 momma cows, we are going to work on improving on their bloodlines and then culling out the less productive ones.

 

[purecountry]

Fabulous as Randy Kaiser?????!!!!???? You really don't know him do you? :lol: :lol: Hope he reads this. :lol:

Sarah Bowman in Montana has some excellent stock, as do many other US breeders. It's a shame about your first transaction being less than tasteful, that's happened to us on occasion also. Were you at the Canadian Annual Meeting in Red Deer, AB by any chance? There was a lady there from Washington travelling with a gentleman from South Dakota. Great people.

As for semen, it's a shame more isn't available for export from us to you. Some breeders here have semen on some truly great bulls of the breed, including George Ramsay(breeder, not a bull). I have daughters of some bulls George had drawn in the 80's and 90's, and they are among my very best.

Not to deter you, just thoughts based on my experience, we've spent alot of time working on improving 2nd-rate cows. It's a long, tiresome, frustrating endeavor. The down-side of cows as opposed to sows - they don't have 2 litters/year of 10-14/litter. It takes many years to improve 2nd rate cows. Long story short, I know where you could get some 1st rate registered heifer calves this fall at 2nd rate prices, if you're interested.

Take care, all the best.

 

[gallowaygirl]

Sarah Bowman in Montana has some excellent stock, as do many other US breeders. Were you at the Canadian Annual Meeting in Red Deer, AB by any chance? There was a lady there from Washington travelling with a gentleman from South Dakota. Great people.

Not to deter you, just thoughts based on my experience, we've spent alot of time working on improving 2nd-rate cows. It's a long, tiresome, frustrating endeavor. The down-side of cows as opposed to sows - they don't have 2 litters/year of 10-14/litter. It takes many years to improve 2nd rate cows. Long story short, I know where you could get some 1st rate registered heifer calves this fall at 2nd rate prices, if you're interested.

Yes, Sarah has wonderful animals, I am actually talking to a man who has two animals that are of her breeding for sale. No, I wasn't at the Meeting, but that would've been Gayle Cerullo and LeRoy Kindler. They are both wonderful people to work with and talk to, and are both very knowledgeable.

And, while we may not be buying anything in the very near future, I would like to know about those heifers if possible.

Thanks!