Galloway Bull-Updated Pics

[gallowaygirl]

Back in September/October of last year I posted pictures wanting people's opinion on a bull we were looking at. Well, we ended up getting him as he was a big step up from our previous bull (who is now sold). Anyways, I wanted to repost those pictures and post a new one of him from the other day to show what he is growing up like. He's just now a little over 2 years old and just went to the field Wednesday for his first working season. We are looking forward to his first calf in September (we bred him to a 2 yr. heifer when we got him in November) and can't wait to see what his calves look like when they start hitting the ground.

Picture from October:

Recent Pic:

Previous Bull:

Let me know what you think of him, his growing, and who he is improving on! (I am willing to take a beating, if it is deserved... :help

Thanks!

 

[cmf1]

I don't know much about Galloways but I'd say you took a big step forward with that change.
How old was the old bull in that pic?

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Galloway Girl-

It is not necessary for you to "take a beating"! The new bull is considerably more desirable from strictly a Phenotype point of view than the one you indicate was your previous sire! I don't know about his EPD's, and am not familiar with the Genetics of your cow herd, but you should have more desirable calves from the current bull than those from the older one. If you are anticipating keeping replacement heifers from your new bull, be sure that you match him with your BEST cows, and select for more than just one or two traits.

DOC HARRIS

 

[gallowaygirl]

I don't know much about Galloways but I'd say you took a big step forward with that change.
How old was the old bull in that pic?

He was about 6 or 7, not exactly sure. Not ancient, but not a young chicken either.

Galloway Girl-

It is not necessary for you to "take a beating"! The new bull is considerably more desirable from strictly a Phenotype point of view than the one you indicate was your previous sire! I don't know about his EPD's, and am not familiar with the Genetics of your cow herd, but you should have more desirable calves from the current bull than those from the older one. If you are anticipating keeping replacement heifers from your new bull, be sure that you match him with your BEST cows, and select for more than just one or two traits.

DOC HARRIS

Thanks DOC, I appreciate the support. The breed doesn't currently have EPD's, as the total number of animals in the herdbook is so limited, and there isn't one breeder anywhere that has a herd large enough to get really accurate numbers anyways as we are all trying to diversify our herds as much as possible to make the gene base bigger without hurting any of the good traits. We are just hoping that the new bull throws good calves. The old bull threw calves that were ok, and he added a lot of color to our herd, but his calves are all pretty narrow, and have little butts. The new bull is about twice as thick as him right now as a two year old, and I expect him to continue growing until he is about 3 or 4. He also doesn't carry the small hindquarter that the previous bull did. We will see how he goes, we will be expecting calves April-June next year. We also have some yearling heifers that are looking nice, and are going to breed them to him next year for some hopefully BIG improvements.

 

[cmf1]

GG,
Looking at the pix of both and talking about the "herdbook being limited", I'd say that the old bull was in "the book" and left a bull to increase the numbers.
Your new bull has the opportunity to increase the quality.
Only time will tell, but I'm betting you just took a major genetic leap forward.

 

[gallowaygirl]

GG,
Looking at the pix of both and talking about the "herdbook being limited", I'd say that the old bull was in "the book" and left a bull to increase the numbers.
Your new bull has the opportunity to increase the quality.
Only time will tell, but I'm betting you just took a major genetic leap forward.

Thanks. And talking about the old bull being "left a bull". He not only wasn't put together very well, and you can't tell this from the pictures, he had SCURS. Which, as part of the herdbook rules, are NOT ALLOWED by any means. When we originally got into the breed we didn't know this. We just recently discovered that it is a SERIOUS issue in the last 6 months. Because I was concerned that the women that had bred him was continually breeding animals with this problem, I called to address it. She told me that "it is just cosmetic, doesn't breed through, and doesn't affect registration" Well, it's not "just cosmetic", it does "breed through" as I have 4 animals out of this breeding with scurs, and it definitely does affect registration as the registration on those animals, the bull, and a cow that was passing them not matter what she was bred to is all having the be revoked. I also believe that the registry is considering revoking the membership of the original breeder as she was continually breeding these animals. So, another bonus for the new bull is that he doesn't have scurs. So, dealing with that, we basically are starting from scratch again since most of the calves we have had (and now upcoming 2 yr heifers) are all out of this bull, and cannot be retained for breeding as they may pass it on, even if bred to a completely polled bull. So...thats some more information for y'all.

 

[gallowaygirl]

Well, just a quick update on this bull. I got his very first calf July 22nd, a white bull calf. He was born very quickly, and small (but no exact birthweight, somewhere under 70 lbs I would guess) Anyways, he is now a month old and the same size as an almost 4 month old bull calf out of the previous bull. And at his young age, he is already trying to do his job :banana: . Plus, when I look out at the field, I see a calf with the words "herd sire" plastered on his side :mrgreen: . But, only time will tell.

Just wanted to share!! Looking forward to his next calf, due Sept. 2nd (crossing fingers for a heifer)

 

[3waycross]

Well, just a quick update on this bull. I got his very first calf July 22nd, a white bull calf. He was born very quickly, and small (but no exact birthweight, somewhere under 70 lbs I would guess) Anyways, he is now a month old and the same size as an almost 4 month old bull calf out of the previous bull. And at his young age, he is already trying to do his job :banana: . Plus, when I look out at the field, I see a calf with the words "herd sire" plastered on his side :mrgreen: . But, only time will tell.

Just wanted to share!! Looking forward to his next calf, due Sept. 2nd (crossing fingers for a heifer)

Post a picture.,,,,,,,

 

[gallowaygirl]

Trying to work with photobucket right now, but don't have new pics of the calf yet, will get them tomorrow and will post pics of him at birth and him now. Just a waiting game now with photobucket.

 

[gallowaygirl]

OK-still loading calf pictures. But here are pictures of the bull from yesterday. He was down working for a month and then was pulled 8/11 to go to a show for a week. He is now at home making sure he didn't catch something at the barns and then will go back to work. I think he looks good for all his recent activity!

 

[ANAZAZI]

Well, just a quick update on this bull. I got his very first calf July 22nd, a white bull calf. He was born very quickly, and small (but no exact birthweight, somewhere under 70 lbs I would guess) Anyways, he is now a month old and the same size as an almost 4 month old bull calf out of the previous bull. And at his young age, he is already trying to do his job :banana: . Plus, when I look out at the field, I see a calf with the words "herd sire" plastered on his side :mrgreen: . But, only time will tell.

Just wanted to share!! Looking forward to his next calf, due Sept. 2nd (crossing fingers for a heifer)

"breed for bulls; hope for heifers" Darol Dickinson

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I don't know how familiar you are with the Scur gene. It is a "sexed linked" gene. A female calf has to inherit the scur gene from the sire AND the dam, in order for it to be "expressed" (fisically visable). A male calf only has to inherit ONE gene from EITHER the sire or the dam, to be "expressed".
So, if you have a cow with no visable sign of a scur, and she has a calf that develops scurs, than you KNOW that she CARRIES the scur gene & that the sire of her calf IS SCURRED.
The same cow could have a dozen heifer calves and never "express" the scur gene - but they may be carriers.
So it is a dominant gene for males, and a recessive gene for females.

 

[ANAZAZI]

I don't know how familiar you are with the Scur gene. It is a "sexed linked" gene. A female calf has to inherit the scur gene from the sire AND the dam, in order for it to be "expressed" (fisically visable). A male calf only has to inherit ONE gene from EITHER the sire or the dam, to be "expressed".
So, if you have a cow with no visable sign of a scur, and she has a calf that develops scurs, than you KNOW that she CARRIES the scur gene & that the sire of her calf IS SCURRED.
The same cow could have a dozen heifer calves and never "express" the scur gene - but they may be carriers.
So it is a dominant gene for males, and a recessive gene for females.

So if a cow with no visible signs of a scur, has a scurred bull calf sired by a non scurred bull, then you know the cow is a carrier.
And if a cow with no visible signs of a scur, has a scurred heifer calf, then you know that the cow is a carrier, and the bull too.
And if a cow with no visible scurs has a scurred bull calf by a scurred bull, you do not know if the cow is a carrier.
Because it is a dominant gene for bulls; no scurs, no scur gene.
And because it is a rcessive gene for cows; with scurs, she is a homozygous carrier ,no scurs, maybe or maybe not a carrier,

Also, if herd sires are not carriers, then who cares if brood cows are carriers, as long as nobody use her scurred sons for breeding.

 

[gallowaygirl]

Yes, I am aware of the genetic part of scurs. But you put it very clearly as well Jeanne.

Also, if herd sires are not carriers, then who cares if brood cows are carriers, as long as nobody use her scurred sons for breeding.

I understand your thoughts, but this is what originally caused our issues. The original breeder felt that it wasnt' a big deal and now the majority of my animals either express the scurs or are carriers, which is WRONG because, for our breed, you are not supposed to register, or continue breeding animals for registered calves if they have the gene. In a commercial operation, or non-registered one, it's not a big deal as it doesn't affect anything. But in our herd, unfortunately, it does. :cry2:

And while you can hopefully breed the scurs out by using a bull who has no scur gene, there will always be a possibility that your original cows, or a heifer from those cows, will produce a calf with scurs. For example, one of our cows is so strongly "scurred" that every calf we have gotten from her, no matter what she is bred to (Angus or Galloway) she had produced calves with scurs. But, she herself has no scurs!

It's all confusing and frustrating, but, we are trying to work through it!

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

For example, one of our cows is so strongly "scurred" that every calf we have gotten from her, no matter what she is bred to (Angus or Galloway) she had produced calves with scurs. But, she herself has no scurs!

The only way every calf she has produced is scurred would be if all her calves were BULLS or any heifer born to her was sired by a bull with scurs.
An animal cannot be "strongly "scurred". You have just been "unlucky" that she has passed her scur gene onto her offspring.

 

[HerefordSire]

For example, one of our cows is so strongly "scurred" that every calf we have gotten from her, no matter what she is bred to (Angus or Galloway) she had produced calves with scurs. But, she herself has no scurs!

The only way every calf she has produced is scurred would be if all her calves were BULLS or any heifer born to her was sired by a bull with scurs.
An animal cannot be "strongly "scurred". You have just been "unlucky" that she has passed her scur gene onto her offspring.

Do you think there are no other genetic differences in scurred animals other than the visible scurs?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

For example, one of our cows is so strongly "scurred" that every calf we have gotten from her, no matter what she is bred to (Angus or Galloway) she had produced calves with scurs. But, she herself has no scurs!

The only way every calf she has produced is scurred would be if all her calves were BULLS or any heifer born to her was sired by a bull with scurs.
An animal cannot be "strongly "scurred". You have just been "unlucky" that she has passed her scur gene onto her offspring.

Do you think there are no other genetic differences in scurred animals other than the visible scurs?

Not sure what you are asking - but, yes, IMO, the actual scur gene just presents scurs. Don't know if they have tried to prove that other genes are "linked" to them. Why, do you think it does something else.

 

[HerefordSire]

You wrote the word "unlucky" for an animal to have scurs. I don't know either. I don't know if scientists have tested for this yet. With herefords, I have noticed many performance leaders that are scurred. Cooincidence?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I was referring to the fact that this person DOES NOT WANT any scurs - since they can't register them?? - and since they don't want scurs and this cow has had only scurred calves, I consider that unlucky. After all, you have a 50/50 chance of the cow passing the gene or NOT!

 

[HerefordSire]

OK. With herefords, I like scurs and they can be registered as polled. Very nice slick trick. Hopefully, my hunch is correct and scurs outperform non-scurs.