houstoncutter
Well-known member
Very well put together
Funnel Butt Angus Cattle
- Thread starter Chuckie
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Rowdy
Well-known member
I do too.. Thats more than adequate in terms of rump for an Angus. I see now- it was Quantums son who you were saying is a db shoshone. Its great to see a nice hip like that w/o that apple butt look.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Oldtimer-
Your post on the "Buffalo-look Maternal Angus bulls" is extremely well done! It just verifies the facts that "Single Trait Selection" decisions will result in compounded problems - Phenotype, Genotype, Functional traits, Physical traits, - - even the so-called "lesser" characteristics other than those listed above. Some of them are docility, skeletal (bone) structure, tight uddders and small teats, femininity, body capacity, fleshing ability - all of these traits are of importance in varying degrees. Traits that producers who are primarily interested in "Terminal" (feedlot) cattle, or market progeny, such as fatness, ribeye area, marbling and percent of Retail Product are more concerned with OTHER factors than those relating to Maternal-producing cattle. This entire discussion about "Funnel Butt" breeding stock points up the argument that in attempting to satisfy everybody with one type of animal is impossible. If that were not the case, eventually every producer would be producing the PERFECT seedstock breeding animals, and we would all live happily ever after. In a "Fairy Tale Dream World!". We all know that is NOT going to happen - ever.
Therefore, the answer is to continue to intelligently breed the best animals to the best animals, and BALANCE their traits and characteristics in the most desirable manner possible for that particular breeder's needs according to HIS environment and goals. The catch to this scenario is - the producer has to KNOW what he wants, and HOW to get it!
. . . And it is all available these days of total and immediate information gathering. It is just a matter of getting off of our duffs and seeking and [searching] for it!
DOC HARRIS
Your post on the "Buffalo-look Maternal Angus bulls" is extremely well done! It just verifies the facts that "Single Trait Selection" decisions will result in compounded problems - Phenotype, Genotype, Functional traits, Physical traits, - - even the so-called "lesser" characteristics other than those listed above. Some of them are docility, skeletal (bone) structure, tight uddders and small teats, femininity, body capacity, fleshing ability - all of these traits are of importance in varying degrees. Traits that producers who are primarily interested in "Terminal" (feedlot) cattle, or market progeny, such as fatness, ribeye area, marbling and percent of Retail Product are more concerned with OTHER factors than those relating to Maternal-producing cattle. This entire discussion about "Funnel Butt" breeding stock points up the argument that in attempting to satisfy everybody with one type of animal is impossible. If that were not the case, eventually every producer would be producing the PERFECT seedstock breeding animals, and we would all live happily ever after. In a "Fairy Tale Dream World!". We all know that is NOT going to happen - ever.
Therefore, the answer is to continue to intelligently breed the best animals to the best animals, and BALANCE their traits and characteristics in the most desirable manner possible for that particular breeder's needs according to HIS environment and goals. The catch to this scenario is - the producer has to KNOW what he wants, and HOW to get it!
. . . And it is all available these days of total and immediate information gathering. It is just a matter of getting off of our duffs and seeking and [searching] for it!
DOC HARRIS
Rowdy
Well-known member
Is there a hierarchy of importance as far as functional traits you can present is with? Importance here could possibly mean profitability.
Oldtimer
Well-known member
Rowdy":2i1vpiiq said:
Yep- 3330's son- 6247- is the sire of the Cole Creek Black Cedar 46P bull that has gotten fairly popular thru semen sales...
http://www.universalsemensales.com/node/10074
One of the former owners of the C H Quantum 6247 bull (he is deceased) had worked with and was very familiar with the Cedar Hills herd prior to their dispersion - and told me that he thought Shoshone Intent KGEA27 (a Shoshone Viking GD60 son)was one of the better Shoshone Angus bred bulls there was... He also thought that 3330's dam Dixie Erica of C H 6180 ( a daughter of Dixie Erica of C H 1019) was a better cow than her now famous mother...
Just his opinions- but he did know those cattle quite well...
I didn't think there was any 6247 semen left to be had anywhere - but this spring Cole Creek sold a couple of his sons in their sale... ;-)
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Rowdy-Rowdy":35x30rsi said:
Go back and read my post on "Functional traits". the answers are to be found in the links. You just have to be industrious enough to ferret them out!
It does little good to have them handed to you on a silver platter. That is the protocol that Obama is attempting to foist on everybody - and you see where that is getting us!! Dig out for yourself what factors YOU need for yourself!
DOC HARRIS
Rowdy
Well-known member
Lol I've read it all - trust me I'm you're biggest fan on CT. I can't even begin to tell you how much I've learned trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about! I was more curious as to what factors YOU need for YOURSELF.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Rowdy":3gdimhkt said:
Rowdy-
:lol2: :lol2: Thanks for the compliment! But inasmuch as I have not been actively engaged in the physical business of handling and raising cattle on a daily basis as I did previously, starting over - as with a fantasy herd - would not be as cogent (look it up!) as if I had rampant bulls, cows in heat and bawling weaned calves with which to contend! This is where the critical factor of BALANCE takes precedence over pie-in-the-sky dreaming and play-acting. REAL animals with REAL Phenotypic Traits and REAL EPD's, and REAL accuracies are the REAL factors which determine how a breeder can focus his efforts on improvement of his seedstock herd, and make REAL PROFIT$. It really takes strong efforts and a lot of contemplation and focused thought to make your dreams work out correctly in your REAL cattle herd, whether you have five cows, or five thousand. It is just a matter of percentages and priorities! And a lot of prayers, too!
On a personal note just now - - - our oldest son passed away last Wednesday in Ohio, and we are leaving tomorrow to go back for the services, so I will not be on CT for about a week.
DOC HARRIS
greybeard
Well-known member
Sorry to hear that Doc. You and yours will be in all our thoughts.
Rowdy
Well-known member
Absolutely, sorry for your loss.
Oldtimer
Well-known member
You have our sympathy's and our prayers...
OP
OP
I posted "Doc's Son" in the "Coffee Shop" board to let everyone know what is going on.
Chuckie
Chuckie
OP
OP
Old Timer, I really do appreciate you posting that line of bulls. The Shoshone bulls are no where to be found here, so I have been digging around on the different sites checking them out. Good looking bull you have.
