Full Genetic Potential

[Lon]

Lon tonight you could have some, that stone has moved a bit and I am church house sober...You made a lot of good points. I have never tried the bull business,have been approached and sold some I have raised...But that could hardly be confused with the seedstock industry....I think someone once said, "A mans got to know his limits"! I am not enough of a people person to be in the seedstock business. I tried it in the club calf business with some sucess, but I hated all the BS and back biting. Ranching will soon be over in my area, land is getting harder to find to lease. I am really thinking about planting pecan trees on the land I own... I get to keep my ag exemption on the land and improve it value and looks to a potential buyer that would build a subdivision.

yeah but then you would miss them cattle if they are in your blood.
houses behind a fence never did look as good as cattle in my opinion.

 

[houstoncutter]

True, but those dollars signs at the end of the month, will lessen the pain...lol

 

[hillbillycwo]

Dun, I noticed my cows cycled fast this year after calving and it appears 2-3 actually bred first cycle post-calving too. I wonder if the lack of cold, muddy and wet conditions through the winter contributed to this. Our winter was frozen ground, little rain (snow instead). It seemed the herd needed less hay this year too.

 

[dun]

Dun, I noticed my cows cycled fast this year after calving and it appears 2-3 actually bred first cycle post-calving too. I wonder if the lack of cold, muddy and wet conditions through the winter contributed to this. Our winter was frozen ground, little rain (snow instead). It seemed the herd needed less hay this year too.

I don;t know. This winter was colder and snowier then usual and we're still feeding hay. By mid to late march we've usually gotten pretty well into the spring flush. This year the spring has been a lot colder and we'll get a day of 60-70 then a couple of days of 30-40

 

[Dylan Biggs]

commercial cattle are not supplemented the way seedstock is i agree with that. no one can afford to supplement them the same it is a different game. your right they are 2 different operations working for different results. In the end i belive we as comercial cattleman set the pace on what we want seedstock to be like. If as a majority are buying these pampered barn babies than that is what they will produce. if we want 900lb 205 wieghts than they will creep feed and push to get them there.[/b]

Lon, your comments have me a bit baffled. On one hand, it sounds like you have as good a handle on the financial realities of a cow calf enterprise as anyone. You have communicated your thoughts about profitability on a number of occasions, and I get the impression you are pragmatic and realistic about the business. The incongruity in your statements no one can afford to supplement them the same it is a different game. your right they are 2 different operations working for different results. is baffling. Do you really believe that having the commercial and purebred operations working for "different " results which are diametrically opposed is benefiting the commercial segment? In your previous posts concerning LH's as a starter herd you made statements acknowledging the benefits of cows that are Rangey, that can rustle up a living, work on their own with out the welfare check. So how are these beneficial range cow attributes being fostered or selected for under management that supplements to the extent that make you observe that no one can afford to supplement them the same it is a different game ? Seems to me, to select for cattle with the kind of attributes you value, being in a different game is counter productive. To help you, the seed stock guy has to be exposing his cattle to the same rules in the same game at the very least, does he not?

What do you think?

 

[Lon]

commercial cattle are not supplemented the way seedstock is i agree with that. no one can afford to supplement them the same it is a different game. your right they are 2 different operations working for different results. In the end i belive we as comercial cattleman set the pace on what we want seedstock to be like. If as a majority are buying these pampered barn babies than that is what they will produce. if we want 900lb 205 wieghts than they will creep feed and push to get them there.[/b]

Lon, your comments have me a bit baffled. On one hand, it sounds like you have as good a handle on the financial realities of a cow calf enterprise as anyone. You have communicated your thoughts about profitability on a number of occasions, and I get the impression you are pragmatic and realistic about the business. The incongruity in your statements no one can afford to supplement them the same it is a different game. your right they are 2 different operations working for different results. is baffling. Do you really believe that having the commercial and purebred operations working for "different " results which are diametrically opposed is benefiting the commercial segment? In your previous posts concerning LH's as a starter herd you made statements acknowledging the benefits of cows that are Rangey, that can rustle up a living, work on their own with out the welfare check. So how are these beneficial range cow attributes being fostered or selected for under management that supplements to the extent that make you observe that no one can afford to supplement them the same it is a different game ? Seems to me, to select for cattle with the kind of attributes you value, being in a different game is counter productive. To help you, the seed stock guy has to be exposing his cattle to the same rules in the same game at the very least, does he not?
What do you think?

you are more than correct here. to benefit me the seed stock guy would be exposing his cattle to the same rules in the same game. but this is usually not the case. like i said i do believe that commercial cattlemen drive what seedstock guys do one way or another. and anymore you are hearing ooos and aaaws about this bull had a 900 and some odd WW. now since they are impressed with this they spend more for this bull. not all commercial cattlemen say it but there is alot that do and i can bet anyone here cant limit it to just one hand on how many people they have heard with being impressed with these results. so these guys that aw over this WW are more apt to spend more money on that bull. they do this and after awhile then they are creep feeding and the whole 9 yards and have great looking calves. but at what profit are they seeing? would i do this? NO i wouldnt. but there are alot that do and you see it more and more at least i have over the years i have been around cattle. now as a seed stock producer thier job is to make bulls that people want to buy. if there are more poeple wanting that big bull they will push thier bulls to get it there. i do not believe using them bulls are the way to go by no mean but what i was getting at is everyone is trying to get that dollar and if comercial cattlemen want them bulls they will produce them. they would be dumb not to. in my opinion though when figuring the bottom line for proit i do not see where you can make money pouring feed to cattle and thier calves. seedstock producers can though cause there is a big difference on what thier bulls go for and the comercial guys steers would go for. are they producing a product that would help me no they are not. i wouldnt buy bulls from them either. before i bought a 900 some lb WW bull pushed on grain i would look at a bull raised on grass and hay. take the one 3way posted 700 some odd lbs no creep grass and hay only. not that is a bull i would use, but i cannot badmouth the seedstock guys that are pushing thier product to get them weight with grain when there are people who are willing to buy them cause they are in it for the same profit i am.
now why would i not buy these bulls.mostly because i dont see how thier calves would perform the way i would raise them and wouldnt want to chance saving heifers out of them that would need treated differntly. there are alot of people that will tell me im wrong here but i still believe if i had a herd of longhorn saler cross cows that i could breed terminally to a charolais or limi i would have a heck of a product. calves would only be 1/4 longhorn and i think they would do just fine. the cows would be as rangy as they come considering what i have heard (no first hand expierance with) about longhorns and saler (do have first hand expierence). i think they would be longlived keep good feet every saler i was around didnt have much for health problems has good udders. they would be a bit smaller cow though but they would be rangy and they sure could take care of themselves during the winter.
i guess the point or points i was trying to make to HC wich i am sure he understood is that i agree with him on what i would want to see in cows. i really do. besides some breed differnce(because of environment) we would be wanting the same type of cattle. besides that though i was saying you cant knock these seedstock breeders for pushing thier cattle because they are selling them in the end (for the most part) to commercial cattlemen. so therefor they are putting out a product that makes them money and if they raised something else that same guy who bought that bull would go somewhere else. even though i dont believe they are producing the rangyiest type around i cant knock them cause someone is buying it. and if you dont like thier product than dont buy it. find someone that raises cattle the way you would with the results you would like to see and look at bulls where they get them from. if everyone wanted to run cattle the way i see fit thier wouldnt be bulls produced that way but it isnt the case. and in the end it is all a money game when it boils down to it. everyone is trying to get the dollar they best know how. for me this would be in my opinion a rangy cow that i wouldnt have to baby and could do it on her own without much more than grass hay some cake once in awhile and trees to stand in. for the guy down the road he might choose that it is a big old 1600 lb cow that raises a heck of a calf but has to creep feed, and take dang good care of them cows in the winter. that would be thier choice and there is producers that will make bulls for each of our operations.

Also though i have put some thought into a red poll saler cross bred back to char or limi and been wondering about simangus or balancers crossed to saler than bred back char or limi for terminal would do. and how they would fair in the winter they way i would want to raise them. i am sure someone will now get on here and tell me i need to take a few more years to decide what i really want to do and go from there so i will answer back to this statement ahead of time. it is my job as manager of my herd to always be thinking of ways to have more profit. (better cows more lbs produced on less expense.) so if that means thinking of what crosses would work good and saying heck im gonna try 2 or 3 different ones and see what gives me the best results than build my herd that way than i guess in my mind im doing my job.
Hope this maybe clears up anything you was wondering on my statement. let me know

 

[mwj]

So Lon are you saying that any seed-stock producer can have 900lb weaning weights if they use a creep feeder? If not how many pounds do you think that creep feed adds to those calves?

 

[Lon]

So Lon are you saying that any seed-stock producer can have 900lb weaning weights if they use a creep feeder? If not how many pounds do you think that creep feed adds to those calves?

nope im not saying that. i am saying there is a big difference in way people raise stuff and a person should choose what they want but not put down someone else for doing what works for them. i know personally i would rather see 700 some od lbs off grass and hay than 900 lbs off of grain. as for how much lbs it ads i wouldnt have a clue we dont creep feed. i know alot of people who do but i guess never asked them cause i personally dont plan on doing it. my entire point on this came up because i figured the thread was started because the person didnt like someone elses cattle they swore up and down were spoiled show cows even though she said they werent. but i am saying though if you want to pour feed to your calves than pick genetics that will help you get the most out of it and the biggest way is look for bulls that perform well that way. if ya dont want to pour feed to your cows or calves than look for genetics that fit that whole scheme.
But do remember if your looking asking because your wondering or looking for advice there are better people to ask about things. i have very few cattle of my own. everything i have ever learned was from either helping run someones cattle or from working or helping other ranchers out. from this i have seen enough to give me a fair grasp. as far as creep feed the people i see use it and continue to are either selling thier calves at weaning or they are keeping them pushing them through the winter on feed than selling in spring to i assume feedlots since they are waying 900lbs give or take by spring. the ones that dont are usually keeping them roughing them calves through winter putting them out on grass in spring then selling them off of grass to feedlots. as far as what i will do when owning them myself is the second one cause in 5 years or so i shouldnt have a shortage of grass but not much for farm ground and someone else can buy that high priced grain.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

commercial cattle are not supplemented the way seedstock is i agree with that. no one can afford to supplement them the same it is a different game. your right they are 2 different operations working for different results. In the end i belive we as comercial cattleman set the pace on what we want seedstock to be like. If as a majority are buying these pampered barn babies than that is what they will produce. if we want 900lb 205 wieghts than they will creep feed and push to get them there.[/b]

Lon, your comments have me a bit baffled. On one hand, it sounds like you have as good a handle on the financial realities of a cow calf enterprise as anyone. You have communicated your thoughts about profitability on a number of occasions, and I get the impression you are pragmatic and realistic about the business. The incongruity in your statements no one can afford to supplement them the same it is a different game. your right they are 2 different operations working for different results. is baffling. Do you really believe that having the commercial and purebred operations working for "different " results which are diametrically opposed is benefiting the commercial segment? In your previous posts concerning LH's as a starter herd you made statements acknowledging the benefits of cows that are Rangey, that can rustle up a living, work on their own with out the welfare check. So how are these beneficial range cow attributes being fostered or selected for under management that supplements to the extent that make you observe that no one can afford to supplement them the same it is a different game ? Seems to me, to select for cattle with the kind of attributes you value, being in a different game is counter productive. To help you, the seed stock guy has to be exposing his cattle to the same rules in the same game at the very least, does he not?
What do you think?

you are more than correct here. to benefit me the seed stock guy would be exposing his cattle to the same rules in the same game. but this is usually not the case. like i said i do believe that commercial cattlemen drive what seedstock guys do one way or another. and anymore you are hearing ooos and aaaws about this bull had a 900 and some odd WW. now since they are impressed with this they spend more for this bull. not all commercial cattlemen say it but there is alot that do and i can bet anyone here cant limit it to just one hand on how many people they have heard with being impressed with these results. so these guys that aw over this WW are more apt to spend more money on that bull. they do this and after awhile then they are creep feeding and the whole 9 yards and have great looking calves. but at what profit are they seeing? would i do this? NO i wouldnt. but there are alot that do and you see it more and more at least i have over the years i have been around cattle. now as a seed stock producer thier job is to make bulls that people want to buy. if there are more poeple wanting that big bull they will push thier bulls to get it there. i do not believe using them bulls are the way to go by no mean but what i was getting at is everyone is trying to get that dollar and if comercial cattlemen want them bulls they will produce them. they would be dumb not to. in my opinion though when figuring the bottom line for proit i do not see where you can make money pouring feed to cattle and thier calves. seedstock producers can though cause there is a big difference on what thier bulls go for and the comercial guys steers would go for. are they producing a product that would help me no they are not. i wouldnt buy bulls from them either. before i bought a 900 some lb WW bull pushed on grain i would look at a bull raised on grass and hay. take the one 3way posted 700 some odd lbs no creep grass and hay only. not that is a bull i would use, but i cannot badmouth the seedstock guys that are pushing thier product to get them weight with grain when there are people who are willing to buy them cause they are in it for the same profit i am.
now why would i not buy these bulls.mostly because i dont see how thier calves would perform the way i would raise them and wouldnt want to chance saving heifers out of them that would need treated differntly. there are alot of people that will tell me im wrong here but i still believe if i had a herd of longhorn saler cross cows that i could breed terminally to a charolais or limi i would have a heck of a product. calves would only be 1/4 longhorn and i think they would do just fine. the cows would be as rangy as they come considering what i have heard (no first hand expierance with) about longhorns and saler (do have first hand expierence). i think they would be longlived keep good feet every saler i was around didnt have much for health problems has good udders. they would be a bit smaller cow though but they would be rangy and they sure could take care of themselves during the winter.
i guess the point or points i was trying to make to HC wich i am sure he understood is that i agree with him on what i would want to see in cows. i really do. besides some breed differnce(because of environment) we would be wanting the same type of cattle. besides that though i was saying you cant knock these seedstock breeders for pushing thier cattle because they are selling them in the end (for the most part) to commercial cattlemen. so therefor they are putting out a product that makes them money and if they raised something else that same guy who bought that bull would go somewhere else. even though i dont believe they are producing the rangyiest type around i cant knock them cause someone is buying it. and if you dont like thier product than dont buy it. find someone that raises cattle the way you would with the results you would like to see and look at bulls where they get them from. if everyone wanted to run cattle the way i see fit thier wouldnt be bulls produced that way but it isnt the case. and in the end it is all a money game when it boils down to it. everyone is trying to get the dollar they best know how. for me this would be in my opinion a rangy cow that i wouldnt have to baby and could do it on her own without much more than grass hay some cake once in awhile and trees to stand in. for the guy down the road he might choose that it is a big old 1600 lb cow that raises a heck of a calf but has to creep feed, and take dang good care of them cows in the winter. that would be thier choice and there is producers that will make bulls for each of our operations.

Also though i have put some thought into a red poll saler cross bred back to char or limi and been wondering about simangus or balancers crossed to saler than bred back char or limi for terminal would do. and how they would fair in the winter they way i would want to raise them. i am sure someone will now get on here and tell me i need to take a few more years to decide what i really want to do and go from there so i will answer back to this statement ahead of time. it is my job as manager of my herd to always be thinking of ways to have more profit. (better cows more lbs produced on less expense.) so if that means thinking of what crosses would work good and saying heck im gonna try 2 or 3 different ones and see what gives me the best results than build my herd that way than i guess in my mind im doing my job.
Hope this maybe clears up anything you was wondering on my statement. let me know

 

[Dylan Biggs]

you are more than correct here. to benefit me the seed stock guy would be exposing his cattle to the same rules in the same game. but this is usually not the case. like i said i do believe that commercial cattlemen drive what seedstock guys do one way or another. and anymore you are hearing ooos and aaaws about this bull had a 900 and some odd WW. now since they are impressed with this they spend more for this bull. not all commercial cattlemen say it but there is alot that do and i can bet anyone here cant limit it to just one hand on how many people they have heard with being impressed with these results. so these guys that aw over this WW are more apt to spend more money on that bull. they do this and after awhile then they are creep feeding and the whole 9 yards and have great looking calves. but at what profit are they seeing? would i do this? NO i wouldnt. but there are alot that do and you see it more and more at least i have over the years i have been around cattle. now as a seed stock producer thier job is to make bulls that people want to buy. if there are more poeple wanting that big bull they will push thier bulls to get it there. i do not believe using them bulls are the way to go by no mean but what i was getting at is everyone is trying to get that dollar and if comercial cattlemen want them bulls they will produce them. they would be dumb not to. in my opinion though when figuring the bottom line for proit i do not see where you can make money pouring feed to cattle and thier calves. seedstock producers can though cause there is a big difference on what thier bulls go for and the comercial guys steers would go for. are they producing a product that would help me no they are not. i wouldnt buy bulls from them either. before i bought a 900 some lb WW bull pushed on grain i would look at a bull raised on grass and hay. take the one 3way posted 700 some odd lbs no creep grass and hay only. not that is a bull i would use, but i cannot badmouth the seedstock guys that are pushing thier product to get them weight with grain when there are people who are willing to buy them cause they are in it for the same profit i am.
now why would i not buy these bulls.mostly because i dont see how thier calves would perform the way i would raise them and wouldnt want to chance saving heifers out of them that would need treated differntly. there are alot of people that will tell me im wrong here but i still believe if i had a herd of longhorn saler cross cows that i could breed terminally to a charolais or limi i would have a heck of a product. calves would only be 1/4 longhorn and i think they would do just fine. the cows would be as rangy as they come considering what i have heard (no first hand expierance with) about longhorns and saler (do have first hand expierence). i think they would be longlived keep good feet every saler i was around didnt have much for health problems has good udders. they would be a bit smaller cow though but they would be rangy and they sure could take care of themselves during the winter.
i guess the point or points i was trying to make to HC wich i am sure he understood is that i agree with him on what i would want to see in cows. i really do. besides some breed differnce(because of environment) we would be wanting the same type of cattle. besides that though i was saying you cant knock these seedstock breeders for pushing thier cattle because they are selling them in the end (for the most part) to commercial cattlemen. so therefor they are putting out a product that makes them money and if they raised something else that same guy who bought that bull would go somewhere else. even though i dont believe they are producing the rangyiest type around i cant knock them cause someone is buying it. and if you dont like thier product than dont buy it. find someone that raises cattle the way you would with the results you would like to see and look at bulls where they get them from. if everyone wanted to run cattle the way i see fit thier wouldnt be bulls produced that way but it isnt the case. and in the end it is all a money game when it boils down to it. everyone is trying to get the dollar they best know how. for me this would be in my opinion a rangy cow that i wouldnt have to baby and could do it on her own without much more than grass hay some cake once in awhile and trees to stand in. for the guy down the road he might choose that it is a big old 1600 lb cow that raises a heck of a calf but has to creep feed, and take dang good care of them cows in the winter. that would be thier choice and there is producers that will make bulls for each of our operations.

Also though i have put some thought into a red poll saler cross bred back to char or limi and been wondering about simangus or balancers crossed to saler than bred back char or limi for terminal would do. and how they would fair in the winter they way i would want to raise them. i am sure someone will now get on here and tell me i need to take a few more years to decide what i really want to do and go from there so i will answer back to this statement ahead of time. it is my job as manager of my herd to always be thinking of ways to have more profit. (better cows more lbs produced on less expense.) so if that means thinking of what crosses would work good and saying heck im gonna try 2 or 3 different ones and see what gives me the best results than build my herd that way than i guess in my mind im doing my job.
Hope this maybe clears up anything you was wondering on my statement. let me know

Lon, thank you for clarifying.

 

[plumber_greg]

But Lon, if those calves you would rather see weigh 700 lbs. off grass, weigh 900 lbs off grass and creep and it costs you even $150 to feed them why wouldn't you? You make it sound like even if highly profitable you wouldn't ever feed a calf. Surley you're savy enough to take a profit when you see it. Creeping commercials have very little to do with if the seedstock is creep fed. BTW if I kept my calves and fed them all winter and sold in the spring I would be sick if they only weighed 900lbs. Good calves should be ready to be slaughtered in the spring, not sent to the feedlot.

 

[Lon]

But Lon, if those calves you would rather see weigh 700 lbs. off grass, weigh 900 lbs off grass and creep and it costs you even $150 to feed them why wouldn't you? You make it sound like even if highly profitable you wouldn't ever feed a calf. Surley you're savy enough to take a profit when you see it. Creeping commercials have very little to do with if the seedstock is creep fed. BTW if I kept my calves and fed them all winter and sold in the spring I would be sick if they only weighed 900lbs. Good calves should be ready to be slaughtered in the spring, not sent to the feedlot.

nope i wouldnt creep feed them even if they weighed 200 extra lbs off of creep. here is my plan so far. i will calve in april. shooting for 2nd week and probably start the first week. reason for this is because i dont want to fight the cold and snow that we here will always get. one calf froven and dead or lots of froze ears and you get plenty of dock for it. so april for me. when i wean them i will put them in a lot with hay they wont get much else than that. once grass comes they will be put on grass and growed out till ready to go to feedlot. now in this senerio i do not see where that creep will benifit me. i know this is a profitable way to do it because one of the most succesful guys i know runs his exactly the same way i plan to. now if i was gonna grow a crop for silage and some grain and new more about feeding than yes i would creep feed under that senerio because that extra gain off of it would truely benifit me. weane heavy calves and them start pouring the feed to them and get them ready to slaughter as soon as possible. but than i will need to have farm ground, i will need to know more about farming than just what ive been told, i will need tractors better than what i have access to, will need equipment to farm, and will need equipment to feed as well. somewhere along those lines for me starting out right now it will not pay to have to get all that. so the first senerio is best for me as far as i can see. like i said there are people who do creep and are sucesful with it. but than i have see nguys creep feed just to wean thier calves and rough them through the winter and they quit creeping mighty quick cause they dont see the benefit in it.

 

[mwj]

Lon you do not have to farm to feed those calves all you have to do is call the feed dealer. I am sure that a lot of people in your area feed cows cake or cubes in the winter so there are probably feed dealers in the area.

 

[Lon]

Lon you do not have to farm to feed those calves all you have to do is call the feed dealer. I am sure that a lot of people in your area feed cows cake or cubes in the winter so there are probably feed dealers in the area.

your right there are feed dealers. we feed cake in the winter as well. what i am saying is for me if i sit down factor in all the costs of the extra creep, once feeding that i should not just rough them through winter and lose the benifits of creep so i factor in the cost of buying all the feed i need in the winter for them to. factor all this extra feed what it will cost to buy it and what it will costs to feed it. next figure out what it will cost for me not to feed them just rough them through the winter turn out on grass. is the benefit of feeding honestly worth it for me on no more than grass should cost me. for me i dont see the benefit i can sell them quicker yes but there is more expense put into them to get them there quicker and there is alot more work put into getting them there that much quicker as well. if roughed through winter there will not be that much work. for me this senerio works better because my wife is in school to finish her mastures and so we will not always be were the cattle are. my dad will watch them for me. so i guess i could give him the extra work but really thats not who i am. so yeah i can buy feed wich is fairly high or i cant plant feed wich takes alot of start up costs to get there both these senerios require alot more work. or i can do like i plan let the cow raise them figure out wich of my cows raise them best calves with no assistance and be making sure i am saving out of them. than i can rough calves through winter. put them out on grass and watch them turn into a whole different animal. wich is cheaper considering what i can get a lease for (givin my personal situation i am at a benefit in this area) and have alot less work. so figureing this why should i go through the the trouble to give myself more work and more expenses.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

Good calves should be ready to be slaughtered in the spring, not sent to the feedlot.

Greg you assume many things with this statement. You assume all calves are born the same time of year yours are, weaned at the same age, bred the same, managed the same, raised with the same resource base etc, etc.

Are you suggesting that any cattle slaughtered past this date are poor regardless?

Are you suggesting the entire yearling grasser population are poor quality cattle?

Are you suggesting that any cattle that are backgrounded are poor cattle?

Are you suggesting "good" calves can only be born the same time yours are?

Are you suggesting in the whole scheme of things their is only one way to do things?

 

[plumber_greg]

No Dlyan I never suggested any of those things. Don't pick one sentence out of a post and take it out of context. I said, "If I kept MY calves and fed them all winter I would be sick if they only weighed 900 lbs in the spring." Good calves, sorry should have said good calves treated like mine, should be slaughtered in the spring, not sent to the feedlot. I calve in Feb., Lon just stated he wants to calve in mid-April, which means he will at best finish in mid-May, big difference in what you call spring, I call that summer calving. I am though, curious as to why you are so sure that to creep feed a calf, even if profitable, or to feed one grain and get the most out of it over the winter, even if profitable, is such a bad thing. It happens all the time here, and Mo. has just as good cattle as the pairie of Canada. If I was in some windswept country, I probably wouldn't want to feed my cattle either, your weather sucks. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just different than you think it outta' be.
I have had lots of opportunities to tell people their cattle are junk and they do it wrong and never have that I can remember. Just like I asked Lon why he didn't think he should take a profit opportunity if presented. He told me and I never argued with him, accepted his answer as working for him. Get off the fact that you ain't the only cattleman around that is making some money. Man, my wife is gone for a few days, guess I needed someone else to yell at this morn. gs

 

[Dylan Biggs]

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Greg, i am relieved you didn't mean what I thought.

As regards commercial production and creep feeding, if after a thorough financial going over it pencils, and there is a profit, I am not against it. In seedstock herds for a true evaluation of the cows ability to nurse and raise a calf IMO it is best to avoid creeping. For commercial herds that retain ownership, getting calves started on a high energy supplement 3 to 4 weeks prior to weaning is a very good strategy to get the calves through the weaning process with out adding a nutitional challenge.

Regarding profitable management systems if they sustainable by virtue of the triple bottom line, then go for it.

 

[Lon]

No Dlyan I never suggested any of those things. Don't pick one sentence out of a post and take it out of context. I said, "If I kept MY calves and fed them all winter I would be sick if they only weighed 900 lbs in the spring." Good calves, sorry should have said good calves treated like mine, should be slaughtered in the spring, not sent to the feedlot. I calve in Feb., Lon just stated he wants to calve in mid-April, which means he will at best finish in mid-May, big difference in what you call spring, I call that summer calving. I am though, curious as to why you are so sure that to creep feed a calf, even if profitable, or to feed one grain and get the most out of it over the winter, even if profitable, is such a bad thing. It happens all the time here, and Mo. has just as good cattle as the pairie of Canada. If I was in some windswept country, I probably wouldn't want to feed my cattle either, your weather sucks. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just different than you think it outta' be.
I have had lots of opportunities to tell people their cattle are junk and they do it wrong and never have that I can remember. Just like I asked Lon why he didn't think he should take a profit opportunity if presented. He told me and I never argued with him, accepted his answer as working for him. Get off the fact that you ain't the only cattleman around that is making some money. Man, my wife is gone for a few days, guess I needed someone else to yell at this morn. gs

:lol2: :lol2: different down south there for sure usually up here its my wife thats doing the yelling. :nod:

 

[Angus Cowman]

. For commercial herds that retain ownership, getting calves started on a high energy supplement 3 to 4 weeks prior to weaning is a very good strategy to get the calves through the weaning process with out adding a nutitional challenge.
.

I just moved the creep feeders out in a pasture today going to filll them tomorrow and wean in about 2 weeks
it sure makes a difference at weaning time how them calves go right to eating and their mommas are the ones walking the fence next to them and the calves all have full bellies and minnimum shrink if any
I weighed some last yr 21 days after weaning and they were gaining right at 2lbs pr day from the day I weaned them
after about 4 or 5 days I let the feeders empty and start bunk feeding the calves

 

[plumber_greg]

Sorry guys, maybe I ought to find some of HC's vidacoms and settle down.
While on the subject of feeding calves in winter, I have on customer, ML, that backgrounds 7-8,000 calves a year. ML is in his early 60's and does it with one son helping parttime and one hired man. The calves are fed a TMR all year long. He usually buys in two groups but is almost always feeding cattle wether on grass or in winter on snow. ML started right out of high school with his father's ground, around 360 acres. He never as far as I knew rented or leased any ground, just started buying when he could.
He told me 15 or 20 years ago he was finally out of debt. He now owns around 3,000 acres of pasture and farmground, debt free. Just a couple of weeks ago a neighboring farm came up for sale. Should have brought $18-2,000 an acre. ML paid $3,000 at auction. Something in the neighborhood of $850,000 for it. He told me that he knew he paid too much, but since he had the money, it made it seem to him like it was cheaper than if he had to borrow.
My point is, feeding cattle all year, even on grass, never getting out and then in, just the same numbers every year depending on his newest purchase of land, has made him a multi-millionare. Can't even hint at him doing something wrong. But it's sure different than this thread thinks it should be done. Everyone's situation is different, and someone starting like Lon needs to look at all options, just like he's doing. I'm sure that someone else can give an example of the exact oppisite of ML that's also made himself a millionaire. Wife will be home Sat.