Freemartins

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This thread got me to thinking about a heifer calf we have right now that is a twin to a bull.
here's a couple of pics.

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Heifer with her dam.

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Pic of her back end. Just doesn't look like the other heifer calves. Will just ship her this fall.
 
dun -- Just FYI and not really on topic, but... I've had three with infantile reproductive tracts (my best-in-the-west repro vet said their tracts were 1/5th the size of their contemporaries), I gave them some time, and one settled first service AI, second settled second service AI, and third settled early in the breeding season natural service and is currently bred back for her 2nd calf.

As to heifers that don't look normal externally; got one over here that looked like a freemartin heifer (vulva and teats), vet said she had both ovaries but only one uterine horn, we ran her with the bull and she had her first calf around April. She was palpated recently, vet stuck his arm in, got this puzzled look on his face and says, "how long has this cow been in the herd?" LOL.

If a blood test calls her a freemartin then she is one, but if I'm just going off external signs and internal palpation, as long as they've got the minimum required parts (cervix, one uterine horn, one ovary), I'm inclined to give them the same chance the rest of the heifers get. I've had pretty good luck so far.
 
as long as they've got the minimum required parts (cervix, one uterine horn, one ovary), I'm inclined to give them the same chance the rest of the heifers get.

Those heifers still aren't herd building material, the chance of a normal reproductive life is minimal.

I've had pretty good luck so far.

Good for you, but if you are trying to make a living by taking chances on culls you are going to need lots of good luck.
 
I still can't get this to make sense to me and I really don't think I will spend the money to have her pelvic checked. Afterall there was a positive blood test! BUT got to thinking if and I mean IF the ol guy was right if she were given a shot of lute she would cycle, right?
 
CKC1586":1gogwo9v said:
I still can't get this to make sense to me and I really don't think I will spend the money to have her pelvic checked. Afterall there was a positive blood test! BUT got to thinking if and I mean IF the ol guy was right if she were given a shot of lute she would cycle, right?

Save the Lute and ship her, the bloodtest won't lie. She had an 8% chance of not being a freemartin, you hoped that it would be the case for her and have used the best method to determine her fate. Nothing more to do.
 
What KNERSIE said. Plus, freemartinism can range from a penis to just not enough hormones to maintain a pregnancy. Just because she may cycle doesn;t mean she can carry a pregnancy. Immature repro tracts will just create more of the same in later generations. If she won;t calve at 24-25 months she doesn;t need to be in a breeding program. Maybe a petting zoo, but not a cow herd. The blood test is accurate, all the hoping and OWT floating around won;t change that.
 
That's the thing though dun -- the heifers I had with infantile reproductive tracts were cycling by 13-14 months (diagnosed at 10 months when checked with contemporaries) and AI'd as soon as heat was detected (so likely settled the first service to first heat). They calved well before 24 months of age.
 
milkmaid":3nih177v said:
That's the thing though dun -- the heifers I had with infantile reproductive tracts were cycling by 13-14 months (diagnosed at 10 months when checked with contemporaries) and AI'd as soon as heat was detected (so likely settled the first service to first heat). They calved well before 24 months of age.
At 10 months I can understand. I thought you were referring to heifers that are getting their yearling repro tract scoring
 
milkmaid":2hrd83l1 said:
That's the thing though dun -- the heifers I had with infantile reproductive tracts were cycling by 13-14 months (diagnosed at 10 months when checked with contemporaries) and AI'd as soon as heat was detected (so likely settled the first service to first heat). They calved well before 24 months of age.

I don't undersand what you want to learn by checking 10 month old heifer calves? Most of them wouldn't even have started going into puberty yet.
 
milkmaid":1v2z6kbb said:
That's the thing though dun -- the heifers I had with infantile reproductive tracts were cycling by 13-14 months (diagnosed at 10 months when checked with contemporaries) and AI'd as soon as heat was detected (so likely settled the first service to first heat). They calved well before 24 months of age.
Were they twins to a bull????? Had they been tested for Freemartin status?????
 
No, they were not twins.

If your heifer has tested positive via a blood test, she is a freemartin, nothing will change that.
 
hillsdown":q3s1dc4l said:
dun":q3s1dc4l said:
CKC1586":q3s1dc4l said:
A chromosome doesn't change, right?!

It must. After all, how often have you heard someone say they use a young bull on heifers so it will throw a small calf?

Now that is the best thing I have heard in a long time... LMAO Dun, thanks for that I needed a chuckle.. :clap: :clap: :lol2:

Sounds stupid but that kind of logic is used all the time. Have a friend that picked up a nice stud quarterhorse out of the kill pen. Previous owners were getting rid of him because another horse bit his ears off and they didn't want the foals to look like that. No lie.

I concur that if the test picked up that the heifer is a chimera it would be a real low chance that they weren't sharing a blood supply through the placenta during the critical time and then the placentas fused. If a heifer is that valuable then raise her up to breeding age and palpate her, she'll just cost you feed and resources; otherwise she goes to town with the steers.
 
redcowsrule33":1j4hxrco said:
Sounds stupid but that kind of logic is used all the time. Have a friend that picked up a nice stud quarterhorse out of the kill pen. Previous owners were getting rid of him because another horse bit his ears off and they didn't want the foals to look like that. No lie.

I concur that if the test picked up that the heifer is a chimera it would be a real low chance that they weren't sharing a blood supply through the placenta during the critical time and then the placentas fused. If a heifer is that valuable then raise her up to breeding age and palpate her, she'll just cost you feed and resources; otherwise she goes to town with the steers.
Holy Moley! Had to look up chimera:
Web definitions for chimera
(Greek mythology) fire-breathing female monster with a lion's head and a goat's body and a serpent's tail; daughter of Typhon
 
CKC1586":7vn9oyt0 said:
redcowsrule33":7vn9oyt0 said:
Sounds stupid but that kind of logic is used all the time. Have a friend that picked up a nice stud quarterhorse out of the kill pen. Previous owners were getting rid of him because another horse bit his ears off and they didn't want the foals to look like that. No lie.

I concur that if the test picked up that the heifer is a chimera it would be a real low chance that they weren't sharing a blood supply through the placenta during the critical time and then the placentas fused. If a heifer is that valuable then raise her up to breeding age and palpate her, she'll just cost you feed and resources; otherwise she goes to town with the steers.
Holy Moley! Had to look up chimera:
Web definitions for chimera
(Greek mythology) fire-breathing female monster with a lion's head and a goat's body and a serpent's tail; daughter of Typhon

Interesting that the definition of my first wife would be on the web!
 
dun, ain't he somethin? We can always count on him for good answers, interesting questions and knowledge about nearly everything and gives us some big giggles to boot!!! Hope he knows how much he is appreciated around here. :clap: :nod:
 
OK...so I think I've read through this post--we have a set of twins, one bull, one heifer, so the highest likelihood is that the heifer is a freemartin for certain, due to the hormones that block the development of normal female reproductive organs. Obviously, the chances of the heifer being a freemartin are >90%. There is a blood test that can be run just to make sure? And it's administered by UC-Davis ($50?)? Or is it something that the vet can do?
 
saintgert":1vzqb5pn said:
OK...so I think I've read through this post--we have a set of twins, one bull, one heifer, so the highest likelihood is that the heifer is a freemartin for certain, due to the hormones that block the development of normal female reproductive organs. Obviously, the chances of the heifer being a freemartin are >90%. There is a blood test that can be run just to make sure? And it's administered by UC-Davis ($50?)? Or is it something that the vet can do?

There was another place posted that does it cheaper then Davis. Whne I had mine done they were the only ones doing it. Most any of the DNA testing type places should be able to do it.
 

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