Frame Size

[lead_dog]

Regarding beef cattle, I'm confused if I should be breeding for a specific frame size. I've gathered that a more moderate size (5 or so) may be preferred. I assume this relates to a need for less feed and potentially fewer health problems, particularly with feet.

However, a larger frame size (7 or so) would produce more meat, although more feed would have to be available.

Right now, I have some of each frame size mentioned above, and will need to make breeding decisions in a few months.

As I am pretty new to this, I wanted to get opinions on whether there is a preferred frame size for raising beef cattle. I'm looking forward to learning from your comments.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

I voted 7 but most of my animals are bigger than this. Its something I'm striving for. My bull is a seven.

 

[randiliana]

I voted 6, although, I like the cows to be in the 5-6 range. You will get a lot of different answers, as there is no frame that is perfect for everyone. Depends a lot on your goals.

 

[dun]

6 - 6.5. SMall enough to not be gluttons and large enough that the calves will fall into the small large to large medium size. Those are the type of calves that our feeders like.

 

[phillse]

6 - 6.5. SMall enough to not be gluttons and large enough that the calves will fall into the small large to large medium size.

That says it best, however a smaller framed animal at say 5 to 6 is great if the are high volume, high capacity with muscle.

 

[Avalon]

I vote 6.5 It works good for me. Frame scores seem to be directed in large part by feedlots. And Dun probably said it best from a cattlemans perspective.

 

[leeshy]

I vote 6.5 It works good for me. Frame scores seem to be directed in large part by feedlots. And Dun probably said it best from a cattlemans perspective.

No frame size is perfect. It depends on your invirement. if you are in a desert running a cow to the section walking miles to waterthen a frame 3 0r 4 might be best. If your on irrigated grass with ample feed then a frame 7 is best. Anything above a 7 starts to regress in profit. good luck

 

[KNERSIE]

I vote 6.5 It works good for me. Frame scores seem to be directed in large part by feedlots. And Dun probably said it best from a cattlemans perspective.

No frame size is perfect. It depends on your invirement. if you are in a desert running a cow to the section walking miles to waterthen a frame 3 0r 4 might be best. If your on irrigated grass with ample feed then a frame 7 is best. Anything above a 7 starts to regress in profit. good luck

I agree, if you have cattle of every size between a 4 and 8, and if you keep good records of BCS at calving breeding and weaning and document the weaning weight as a ratio of the cows average weight you'll soon see which frame sizes (in general) and more specifically which body types is best suited for your conditions. For me in an arid environment its thick high capacity frame 4.5-5.5 cows. If you can justify running more than one bull nothing prevents you from breeding some of your cows to a much taller bull for terminal purposes (feedlot)

 

[dun]

For me in an arid environment its thick high capacity frame 4.5-5.5 cows.

How do the cattle water, are the water sources fairly close together? When we ran cows in arid conditions, a pair per 300 acres, the water sources were 5-6 miles apart. Steep sandy/rocky terrain so we needed cows with a lot of leg and some Brahman influence. High capacity animals didn;t work well because of the lose fairly deep sand.

 

[novatech]

I vote 6.5 It works good for me. Frame scores seem to be directed in large part by feedlots. And Dun probably said it best from a cattlemans perspective.

No frame size is perfect. It depends on your invirement. if you are in a desert running a cow to the section walking miles to waterthen a frame 3 0r 4 might be best. If your on irrigated grass with ample feed then a frame 7 is best. Anything above a 7 starts to regress in profit. good luck

I would think that just the opposite is true. Cattle with more leg can travel a greater distance for water using less energy. Brahman are used for cross breeding in the tropics and semi-tropic areas and arid regions. Some Brahman are bred more for the South American market while others are bred for a more European phenotype and a lower frame score. Shorter cattle need to have there food and water resources close at hand.

 

[dun]

I vote 6.5 It works good for me. Frame scores seem to be directed in large part by feedlots. And Dun probably said it best from a cattlemans perspective.

No frame size is perfect. It depends on your invirement. if you are in a desert running a cow to the section walking miles to waterthen a frame 3 0r 4 might be best. If your on irrigated grass with ample feed then a frame 7 is best. Anything above a 7 starts to regress in profit. good luck

I would think that just the opposite is true. Cattle with more leg can travel a greater distance for water using less energy. Brahman are used for cross breeding in the tropics and semi-tropic areas and arid regions. Some Brahman are bred more for the South American market while others are bred for a more European phenotype and a lower frame score. Shorter cattle need to have there food and water resources close at hand.

Brahmans also have a different grazing pattern then the other breeds. They take a bite and walk, take a bite and walk. The others thend to more take a bite and take a step. The heavily Brahman influemced cattle better utilize an area when they have to travel distances for feed or water.
I love the desert but here I can raise the kindss of animals that I really like to look at, i.e. smaller, chunkier. The cattle we raise here would be real money pits in the desert where the cattle that work there wouldn;t find many buyers in this part of the country.

 

[novatech]

I vote 6.5 It works good for me. Frame scores seem to be directed in large part by feedlots. And Dun probably said it best from a cattlemans perspective.

No frame size is perfect. It depends on your invirement. if you are in a desert running a cow to the section walking miles to waterthen a frame 3 0r 4 might be best. If your on irrigated grass with ample feed then a frame 7 is best. Anything above a 7 starts to regress in profit. good luck

I would think that just the opposite is true. Cattle with more leg can travel a greater distance for water using less energy. Brahman are used for cross breeding in the tropics and semi-tropic areas and arid regions. Some Brahman are bred more for the South American market while others are bred for a more European phenotype and a lower frame score. Shorter cattle need to have there food and water resources close at hand.

Brahmans also have a different grazing pattern then the other breeds. They take a bite and walk, take a bite and walk. The others thend to more take a bite and take a step. The heavily Brahman influemced cattle better utilize an area when they have to travel distances for feed or water.
I love the desert but here I can raise the kindss of animals that I really like to look at, i.e. smaller, chunkier. The cattle we raise here would be real money pits in the desert where the cattle that work there wouldn;t find many buyers in this part of the country.

I agree with you on this.
When reading the posts on frame score we all tend so visualize these animals from our own perspective as to what we raise and where we live. If I said I had a cow that was a frame score 8, many would assume it would be a very large cow. Then if I said it only weighed 1600 lbs, they would consider it gutless. On the other hand since I have Brahmans I would consider it mid size and leggy. (My numbers are probably inaccurate but look at the point I'm trying to make.) More suited to arid conditions.
I have seen cattle pics on these boards that people claim to be FS 5.6 and weigh close to a Ton.
As posted on another thread FS without knowing the weight is meaningless.

 

[MikeC]

Frame 5-6 cows with frame 7 bulls work here.

 

[lead_dog]

This is all very helpful to me to read. I asked because I have some that are in the 5 "range" and some that appear closer to 7. Grass and water isn't a problem for the number we're stocking.

I was just wondering if there was "right" answer, as I've heard that some people think a more moderate frame is better. But I was wondering if there is anything "wrong" with a herd of frame 7 cattle. While the opinions seem to favor a 5-6 size, I'm still not sure why some breeders are breeding up while others are breeding down.

 

[dun]

I'm still not sure why some breeders are breeding up while others are breeding down.

Why do some people like chevys and others like Fords. It's as much a mtter of taste as anything. I think maybe some tradition may be involved also.

 

[MikeC]

Small frames work on the "Cow" end but not as well on the "Fed Calf" end of the equation.

Thus, the reason for Terminal sires.


Find what works for you. To heck with everyone else.

 

[KNERSIE]

For me in an arid environment its thick high capacity frame 4.5-5.5 cows.

How do the cattle water, are the water sources fairly close together? When we ran cows in arid conditions, a pair per 300 acres, the water sources were 5-6 miles apart. Steep sandy/rocky terrain so we needed cows with a lot of leg and some Brahman influence. High capacity animals didn;t work well because of the lose fairly deep sand.

My water sources aren't close together, but not 5-6 miles apart either. In a drought often only one source of water remains drinkable and they then have to travel to graze. I have found that they tend to stay close to the water during the day and walk away at night or atleast the cooler times to graze. I need high capacity cattle as they tend to better utilise poor feed and I also need cattle that carries a bit of backfat and fat in the brisket as an emergency energy source in drought times.

I have no doubt that a little brahman, afrikaner or bonsmara might help in my environment, but my farm being very dense bush and almost port jackson tree forest, herding them will give more trouble for me than the little aditional walking ability would give financial gain.

I have sandy areas, but not deep loose sand that causes problems walking.

 

[hillrancher]

I look at the size of animal as to what the owner wanted and could tolerate. In my case I cannot use a real large animal they will have sore feet all summer and I want a back hoof on my cattle.

 

[dun]

I have a real simple standard for mature cow size. If she can walk under my out stretched arm without me having to raise it above horizontal, then they're in the size range I want.

 

[leeshy]

I have a real simple standard for mature cow size. If she can walk under my out stretched arm without me having to raise it above horizontal, then they're in the size range I want.

Frame size does not mean how long there legs are. It is the distance from the ground to the top of its hip. Therefor a deep bodied animal with shorter legs may be taller than a one gutted greyhound with shorter legs. Depth of side and body condition determins the dualability to ones enviroment. Them one gutted ones will not survive on a harsh inviroment. They don't have enough capasity to survive along time. So like i said if you have more grass than they can eat you can stand larger framed cattle. if you no grass then you would want smaller. It all amounts to the type of range you have.