Frame score

Help Support CattleToday:

kenny thomas

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 16, 2008
Messages
17,565
Reaction score
12,985
Location
SW tip of Virginia
A few days ago a very large cattle buyer told me that some of the feedyards he sends cattle to are wanting a bigger frame animal that has a bigger carcass. He said one of the reasons was it cost about the same to kill a big frame calf as it does a small frame and too many people were getting medium or smaller frame calves.
Anyone else heard this?
This came about as a friend was selling some large frame 950 lb Charolais cross heifers. They brought very good.
 
A few days ago a very large cattle buyer told me that some of the feedyards he sends cattle to are wanting a bigger frame animal that has a bigger carcass. He said one of the reasons was it cost about the same to kill a big frame calf as it does a small frame and too many people were getting medium or smaller frame calves.
Anyone else heard this?
This came about as a friend was selling some large frame 950 lb Charolais cross heifers. They brought very good.
I always wonder how they get a reasonable size cut of steak from these larger framed cattle? The biggest hanging weight steer I've ever butchered hung at 800, the steaks were huge, hung off of a full size plate. I prefer 650-700 hw which is a small to medium frame steer that'll weigh 1050-1200. At what point are the steers too big creating too big of a steak to market?
 
Those big cattle have been in demand for quite some time. A lot of packers do not discount on hanging weight until it goes over 1000#. The balancing act is the yield grade. Those yg 4&5 cattle will hurt the bottom line quickly.
 
Those big cattle have been in demand for quite some time. A lot of packers do not discount on hanging weight until it goes over 1000#. The balancing act is the yield grade. Those yg 4&5 cattle will hurt the bottom line quickly.
Very possible that the yield grade is a big part of it.
 
I have been hollerin for years that cattle are getting too small of frame. Coming out of the 80's and early 90's cattle were very different looking than now. I had a Charolais bull, that had a yearling frame score of 11. He was an ET son of a national champion bull and reserve national champion female. Those cattle looked like a lot of others at the time. They looked to me like that they had as much Chianina in them as the breed they were supposed to be.
They were big boned and tall, not much natural thickness.
Then the new buzzword was moderate framed. Here we are some 30 years later and breeders are still moderating.
Now the average frame is going to be around 5, with a common range from 4-6. With 6-7 frame being hard to come by. Might be able to find AI bulls of that but when paired with cows that are average it skews back towards the average.
It's easier to take frame off than to breed it back on, unless you go the original Chianina route.
I've noticed for quite a while the feeders and buyers want bigger framed cattle because they work better for them.
The small framed stuff just get fat too soon.
 
I have been hollerin for years that cattle are getting too small of frame. Coming out of the 80's and early 90's cattle were very different looking than now. I had a Charolais bull, that had a yearling frame score of 11. He was an ET son of a national champion bull and reserve national champion female. Those cattle looked like a lot of others at the time. They looked to me like that they had as much Chianina in them as the breed they were supposed to be.
They were big boned and tall, not much natural thickness.
Then the new buzzword was moderate framed. Here we are some 30 years later and breeders are still moderating.
Now the average frame is going to be around 5, with a common range from 4-6. With 6-7 frame being hard to come by. Might be able to find AI bulls of that but when paired with cows that are average it skews back towards the average.
It's easier to take frame off than to breed it back on, unless you go the original Chianina route.
I've noticed for quite a while the feeders and buyers want bigger framed cattle because they work better for them.
The small framed stuff just get fat too soon.
Too small of frame for whom?
Is the cow calf guy being adequately compensated to run larger cows? In nearly every case he isnt
 
Too small of frame for whom?
Is the cow calf guy being adequately compensated to run larger cows? In nearly every case he isnt
My point is that the feeders and packers want bigger cattle. We know that the cow /calf producers best interest is if no concern to the packers. That said we raise what the market wants if we want better prices.
I'm not convinced that small framed cows are as profitable as some people promote.
 
How much frame is too much?

Ellingson Three Rivers 8062 AAA# 19203618
EPD MH +1.6
Byergo Winston 8460 AAA# 19509392
EPD MH +1.5
GAR Grass Roots AAA#19779575
EPD MH +1.3

I think twice about using an AI sire with a MH EPD greater than +1.0
 
How much frame is too much?

Ellingson Three Rivers 8062 AAA# 19203618
EPD MH +1.6
Byergo Winston 8460 AAA# 19509392
EPD MH +1.5
GAR Grass Roots AAA#19779575
EPD MH +1.3

I think twice about using an AI sire with a MH EPD greater than +1.0
Those are all too big of stature for here (and too far negative $EN) unless I just wanted terminal calves.
 
Frame on terminal calves can be changed pretty quickly by use of a taller bull. You dont have to have tall cows to get more frame. We probably dont need 7 frame cows but i dont want 4 frame cows either. I have stated for years that i want a 6.5 frame bull.
 
They aren't, people think they'll eat less. I'll never understand people that constantly complain about what it cost to feed a cow.
There's clearly individual variance, but as a whole the requirements of a larger animal will be more than a smaller one. Its not a 1:1 ratio though.
 
Frame score measures one part of what is need. The thing that a lot of folks want is capacity which is hard to measure. It is like using the term ''good'' sometimes it means little as far as a specific question being answered.
 
I guess it would depend on who your customer is. If you are selling to steakhouses, they want a consistent size quality steak or a box cut as its usually known as. If you have on your menu, 12 oz ribeye's, you are not going to buy cuts that are 14 oz. So it would seem like there is a limit to frame size at some point.
 
Frame score numbers are officially calculated based on hip height and age (as well as sex). Frame score at maturity is meaningful since it is the endpoint of the height curve. But what about frame score at weaning, or yearling? How meaningful is it? A calf on a high level of nutrition will weigh more and will be taller than one on a lower level of nutrition. Because it grew faster from the nutrition. The shape of the growth/frame curve is different with higher nutrition. Is the calf that was fed a larger frame score? On that day, I think yes based on age and height. But is it larger frame at maturity?

When someone states a preference for a "6" frame calf, what do they really mean? Based on a ruler? (I don't think many people actually measure frame.) Based on a visual perception only? Can they "eye" the frame correctly without being influenced by condition?

Is there a direct correlation between frame score and ribeye area? Does frame equate to a REA.? Or is there a lot of variation? If there is a perfect frame size, is the number the same between brood cows, weaned calves, stockers, and feedlot cattle?

I have questions, but no answers. Maybe some opinions.
 
Frame score numbers are officially calculated based on hip height and age (as well as sex). Frame score at maturity is meaningful since it is the endpoint of the height curve. But what about frame score at weaning, or yearling? How meaningful is it? A calf on a high level of nutrition will weigh more and will be taller than one on a lower level of nutrition. Because it grew faster from the nutrition. The shape of the growth/frame curve is different with higher nutrition. Is the calf that was fed a larger frame score? On that day, I think yes based on age and height. But is it larger frame at maturity?

When someone states a preference for a "6" frame calf, what do they really mean? Based on a ruler? (I don't think many people actually measure frame.) Based on a visual perception only? Can they "eye" the frame correctly without being influenced by condition?

Is there a direct correlation between frame score and ribeye area? Does frame equate to a REA.? Or is there a lot of variation? If there is a perfect frame size, is the number the same between brood cows, weaned calves, stockers, and feedlot cattle?

I have questions, but no answers. Maybe some opinions.
Always remember the ''average'' person has one testicle.;)
 

Latest posts

Top