Foundation Hereford Bulls

[Watertondifter]

.......OH YA...AND I DON'T DRINK...either...lol :secret: :drink: :roll:

 

[Northern Rancher]

Come up to their sale and see how the outfit is run before you chirp-I know 552 works in a commercial enviroment because he worked in a commercial enviroment-MINE. I could care less if some purebred guy uses 20P-in fact I knew by pricing him at $20 most wouldn't. As far as somebody showing 552's that's their problem not mine-you saw how shiny 20P looked on just hay-take a Denver champion up there leave him paw out in the Wintering Hills till New Years then let him live on hay-wait you won't have to he'll be dead. Bullshit the fans don't bullshit the players-you can go to Denver for that-I don't think Holden's and Coopers cattle ee too many lean days either. They might be good but once an outfit goes to showstick-feed bucket route I'm not smart enough to sort them I'll leave that to the experts.

 

[jenran]

Well...might as well jump in the ring ... LOL !!

There seems to be so much dispute here as to the ability of "show cattle" to compete in the "real world". I wonder how many of us have taken the time to view large numbers of cattle AFTER they have been shown ? ...and see how they are producing....and how they are managed. Are the opinions here based on the knowledge that NO cattle are able to make "good cows" if they are shown. Is it that if an animal WERE shown ...that is must be no good ?

I guess I take this all a bit personally when groups of people are judged without a person even taking the time to know the individuals they are judging...or the cattle that they raise. Because I show cattle...does that mean that I am a "wannabe" who just stands around and B.S"s all day, trying to look important ? As a fifth generation rancher...I have a huge amount of pride in the ability of my cattle to be functional....and profitable. There are many great bulls/females that have been shown...that have also gone "home" and proven themselves among those "real" cattle. YES...there are also some that have not done well...but there are also a number of cattle that have never seen a show ring that will also not turn out for one reason or another.

Being a part of both the purbred and commercial cattle industry has done nothing but further my own knowledge and ability to evaluate cattle. Sometimes seeing what you DON"T like can be just as much a education..as recognizing what you DO like. I also enjoy visiting with people involved in ALL aspects of the cattle industry...

I guess what I am saying is that maybe we should not be so quick to judge...I am okay with it if some of you don't like cattle shows...and many of you have expressed very real limitations that these events have...but that is not to say that a person cannot find ANY benefit in them or the people who exhibit their cattle at them.

Is this site no different than a cattle show ??? Where we are all gathering...sharing our ideas...hmmm....and maybe our cattle too ??? Seems like a good place to be doesn't it ???

-----Cosgray-----You're thread kind of got hijacked here...but sounds to me like you have a program in mind...and are looking at ALL your options...THAT to me is one thing that I really enjoy about breeding cattle....and visiting with fellow breeders...I am interested to hear what bulls you decided on using...you'll have to let us know...

Northern Rancher---There is a cattle show in Nov. near you I think....if you feel like opening your mind up to a group of people who are not ALL drinking...but who are enjoying discussing ALL aspects of the cattle buisness (remember...many purebred breeders are also leaders in the commercial industry)...come on in...and look me up...I 'll show you some "show" cattle you can disregard because they are at a show...and then in a year...or two...or ten...you can come on down to MY "real world"...and see those cattle for yourself...maybe then you can tell us how "useless" ALL show cattle are.

Jen :secret: who is now biting her tongue....and promising to get off my soapbox !! haha...

 

[Northern Rancher]

PM me directions to your outfit and I'd be glad to visit-if your cattle work in the real world why go to Agribition and hang out with a bunch of cattle that don't. Trust me after twenty years in the A'I busines, order buying bulls etc I've seen alot that didn't. Why not show a pen of commercial calves over in the commercial barns-other than visiting with some college buddies in the purebred barns I don't hang their much. Row after row of overfed cattle tied up by their halters don't do anything for me-my bad I guess. But I'll stop in tour your place if I'm close by it-between cows,rodeo and coaching hockey I don't miss too many corners of Sask. or Alberta. Hopefully this chemo deal works out and I can road warrior next summer. As for ever condoning the show ring I just can't do it-I've seen way to much damage down by it over the years. Like I said before it's a place to network, socialize and merchandize-it's too bad some maybe good cattle have to get the feet fed off them and their livers crisped for people to do it. Swing by an A'I stud someday and ask which bulls collect best-Lad was 800 a jump the best Hereford they'd ever had-some Calgary bulls never would freeze semen. Why not have a show in early Sept. after those bulls have bred 40-50 cows-bring them in unfitted and judge them off of horseback in a big outdoor pen-I could go for that. My kids are 4H members and actually have won a few district deals with cow/calf pairs and one heifer-its funny how the skinniest yearling at the local show gets bred and comes back to win as a pair alot of the stuffy's don't-I'm way more proud of their public speaking awards than I am of show banners-it's a necessary evil for them to be in 4H and they soldier on last in class showing their May/June steers and getting buried-they're at the end of the line just the wrong end. We refuse to winter calve to be competitive on the steer side-and I won't wreck a breeding heifer to win a banner.

 

[KNERSIE]

Just another take on showing...

As most of you know, I'm a purebred breeder that also run a straightbred hereford commercial herd in conditions that most of you can't even imagine. After the breeding season the registered and commercial cattle run together in one large herd, at weaning the bets heifers are retained regardless of not a single one is registered, obviously only the registered bulls get to stay in tact till weaning so there really isn't much of a comparison there.

Being relatively unknown till fairly recently I had to show to force myself into the higher priced bull market. I didn't go looking for showring presence bulls to sire show stock, I merely showed to others what I am breeding. If they happen to compete, then good, if not at least I showed what I am breeding and you'll be surprised how many people call afterwards and tell you they like what they see as opposed to what they see in the cattle of other big name breeders.

The showring isn't an evil place, it still has its use today, how you are going to use or abuse the showring is up to you.

This bull was in the showring 3 weeks ago and here he is with the commercial herd grazing what is as you can see a far cry from being pampered and surprisingly he isn't just skin and bones or dead yet. No easy let down, he went from the show to the commercial herd for the breeding season, just very acidic veld with no supplement, not even straw.

This 16 month old bull was also shown succesfully 3 weeks ago, he will be turned out with 38 cows on Monday to clean up after AI, He'll have it a touch easier as he will be on pasture and not on veld like the older bull, but will also have no supplement at all.

 

[ollie?]

Clearly "show" cattle aren't all alike. Some will work for me, some won't. "Ranch" cattle aren't all alike. Some will work for me , some wont. Blanket statements that either type of cattle are good or bad seems wrong. Cattle are cattle the world over. Some are what I'm looking for , some aren't.

 

[jenran]

Being relatively unknown till fairly recently I had to show to force myself into the higher priced bull market. I didn't go looking for showring presence bulls to sire show stock, I merely showed to others what I am breeding. If they happen to compete, then good, if not at least I showed what I am breeding and you'll be surprised how many people call afterwards and tell you they like what they see as opposed to what they see in the cattle of other big name breeders.

DITTO !! Good for you Knersie ... this is also how we feel about showing !....and...you don't have to wreck them to get them there...your pic's are proof of that. I would love to see your cattle...at the show..AND at your place....looks to me like they are very much living in the "real world".

Sure...some cattle are wrecked by showing....some commercial cattle are also wrecked by poor management. Would I like to see more shows where cattle are less conditioned ? ...you bet...my point is only that "good" cattle can be found in all kinds of outfit's ... if one is willing to take the time to find them. I think your Lad bull is an example of a bull that could work well in the commercail and PB world (in fact I did consider using him at one time...) maybe you don't care if PB guys use him....but remember the guy you bought him from IS a purebred breeder who also raises some "real world" cattle...and he is not the only one out there.

Didn't I say I was gonna bite my tongue ?...haha

Jen

 

[alacattleman]

well im a wannabe, and a drunk... just broke as heL@

 

[Frankie]

There's lots of money to be made selling pretty show heifers. No one should doubt that. If that's the road someone choses to take, more power to them, IMO.

But using popular show bulls can come back and bite you for sure. A well known, respected, Angus breeder here in OK used semen from a popular show bull on their son's show cow. They needed to "clean her up" some and thought this particular bull would work. They were hoping for a heifer for the kid to show next year, but got a bull instead. He had a big BW EPD 9 or 10 lbs? They sent him to test and he did good, gained well, was a thick, moderate framed good liking bull. But that BW killed him to the buyers. He brought about half of what their other bulls sold for. Plus, if you're a commercial cattleman and putting heifers with BW EPDs +9 in your herd, you're setting yourself up for a wreck. (Angus EPDs referenced here, of course)

 

[novatech]

For my cattle, that I AI ,I use nothing but show winner bulls. Not being the best on evaluating conformation I feel that I will obtain a better outcome using them. As far as the rest of the bulls qualifications I always talk to others that have cattle out of the particular bulls I am interested in.
There are reason that show cattle win. I believe that good conformation is a great asset to longevity as well as the features that aid in meat quality and quantity.
I have been very pleased with the results to date.

 

[ollie?]

There's lots of money to be made selling pretty show heifers. No one should doubt that. If that's the road someone choses to take, more power to them, IMO.

Those heifer calves sure added a lot of money for some breeders during the black bull craze of the 90's. In some instances the heifer calves were worth more than the yearling bulls as I remember.

 

[S&WSigma40VEShooter]

There's lots of money to be made selling pretty show heifers. No one should doubt that. If that's the road someone choses to take, more power to them, IMO.

Those heifer calves sure added a lot of money for some breeders during the black bull craze of the 90's. In some instances the heifer calves were worth more than the yearling bulls as I remember.

Right on RN_BSN right on.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I guess I should of rephrased that-it is flattering I suppoise if the pb industry would use Lad but I'm pretty sure that when I priced him at $20 most would shy off him. Angus breeders will use the hell out a $15 dollar bull if they think he is useful-most Hereford guys like to spend alot more money.

 

[Frankie]

There's lots of money to be made selling pretty show heifers. No one should doubt that. If that's the road someone choses to take, more power to them, IMO.

Those heifer calves sure added a lot of money for some breeders during the black bull craze of the 90's. In some instances the heifer calves were worth more than the yearling bulls as I remember.

I'll never understand why people will pay considerably more for a pretty, unproven heifer than a young cow with a proven history, bred to a good bull or even with a calf at side. But I've seen it over and over.

 

[KNERSIE]

There's lots of money to be made selling pretty show heifers. No one should doubt that. If that's the road someone choses to take, more power to them, IMO.

Those heifer calves sure added a lot of money for some breeders during the black bull craze of the 90's. In some instances the heifer calves were worth more than the yearling bulls as I remember.

I'll never understand why people will pay considerably more for a pretty, unproven heifer than a young cow with a proven history, bred to a good bull or even with a calf at side. But I've seen it over and over.

All over the world as well.

 

[novatech]

It's only human nature. Just go to a shopping center and watch all the old farts eyeballing the young gals. :lol:

I'll never understand why people will pay considerably more for a pretty, unproven heifer than a young cow with a proven history, bred to a good bull or even with a calf at side. But I've seen it over and over.

 

[SRBeef]

...This 16 month old bull was also shown succesfully 3 weeks ago, he will be turned out with 38 cows on Monday to clean up after AI, He'll have it a touch easier as he will be on pasture and not on veld like the older bull, but will also have no supplement at all.

I love that bull! Did you feed him up ahead of the show? Pretty impressive for 16 months! Thanks for the pictures.

Jim

 

[HerefordSire]

It's only human nature. Just go to a shopping center and watch all the old farts eyeballing the young gals. :lol:

I'll never understand why people will pay considerably more for a pretty, unproven heifer than a young cow with a proven history, bred to a good bull or even with a calf at side. But I've seen it over and over.

I think it is the other way around. The young ladies trying to get my attention while I try to ignore them. Same thing happens in my pastures. The oldest bull gets all the heifers then the cows, not the other way around.

 

[Frankie]

It's only human nature. Just go to a shopping center and watch all the old farts eyeballing the young gals. :lol:

I guess it's bull nature, too. While heat checking a few years ago, I noticed the longhorn gomer bull worn out from following a heifer around. She wasn't ready to stand and laid down. He laid down beside her; a big old R&J Spade cow came up and butted him until he got up, smelled, and mounted her. Then he laid back down by the heifer and the cow went off to graze. She just had to get his attention, I guess. :lol:

 

[oakcreekfarms]

depending on your environment I wouldn't go back on those gerber and especially those feltons cows with a feltons bull. i would use something like remitall route 66, Global, or something with some bone and power. I never have been a huge fan of straight bred feltons cows. If you are using the semen on adult cows Kevin schultz sold a bull a couple years ago named SHF Tahoe who would add some pounds and bone to a calf crop. He also sold a calf that I really liked to able acres last year that would do the same.