Foresight and Final Product

[GodsCountry]

I have a commercial herd of mostly Angus and CharAngusX cows. I have been utlilizing AI for two years. Last year it was only on my heifers. This year I used mostly Woodhill Foresight and Connealy Final Product. My ultimate goal is to breed for an Angus based cow. I have seen some Foresight calves that are really thick. I haven't seen any FP offspring, but the technician suggested FP on some of the CharX cows to bring frame score down. Ideal cow for me is a 5.5-6.0 frame cow and moderate milk. I don't like extremes on milk or YW, they just do not seem to be efficient for me. I've looked over some of Angus' Pathfinder sires and they appear to be either crazy as bats or too big. I get good service from ABS rep and prefer to stay with ABS in the future. Any suggestions on breeding? Should I stick with FP and Foresight or do I need to look in another direction. I sell yearling calves but plan to eventually move towards retained ownership in due time. Carcass traits are not at the top of my list, but I would like to keep some decent carcasses in these cows so I do not have to start from scratch if and when I try retained ownership...thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. :help:

I use Charolais as a terminal cross currently so it is easier to identify AI and bull bred offspring. I plan to breed AI sired cattle to a Simmental or SimmAngus. Thoughts on which bulls to target there for replacements as my program advances?

 

[Lucky_P]

Look at B/R Destination 928.
He ain't pretty, but calves easy(wouldn't necessarily breed him to a heifer, but you'd probably be OK if she was well-grown), has good WW/YW, moderate milk, high marbling/high ribeye, has all the tenderness gene markers, and has high heifer(daughter) pregnancy score. Daughters here have great dispositions, and we'll be using him again to sire some more high% Angus cows for our cross-breeding program. Got almost all heifers with conventional semen; the couple of steers were as good or better than most other Angus-sired calves. Oh, and free of all the defects that have been identified, so far.

 

[GodsCountry]

Any experience or laid eyes on Foresight or Final Product calves?

 

[Jake]

I like the foresight bull quite a bit more. Should create better females going back to the PAPA cattle. Final Products are too tight wound for me personally I like them a little soggier through the middle.

 

[cow pollinater]

Foresight has made a lot of people happy over the years. I think he's a safe choice for you to keep using.
Final Product would not be my choice to use over char cross cows to moderate the frame. Foresight would be a better choice there.

On the Sim side of things, Sure Bet would fit right in there. Moderate frame and docile. Hoosier would be another one to look at but he'd make a little bigger cow than sure bet. Sharper Image is one you can use as terminal and keep daughters and he's Simangus so you could use him over the char influence cows without going to far continental.
I've had calves out of all three and was happy with all of them.

 

[Lucky_P]

Lots to like about Foresight - keep intending to use him, just never have gotten around to him. He also brings tenderness to the table, as he's got all the GeneStar markers. Haven't seen any cows by him, first-hand, though most comments I've seen are that he will moderate frame some.

Have a few Sure Bet daughters here; out of good cows, they're good - out of lesser cows, well, you know that deal. Good dispositions, and they've done a decent job with their first calves. Have calved several heifers to him, with no problems, other than one that had an elbow back. He will definitely moderate frame size.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

On the simmental side, there are lots of options. Sticking with ABS, bulls I have used and liked are Beef Maker (he is red), Movin Forward, Dominator, Macho, Pacesetter, and Olie. Those are the purebreds, and each has his own he will add. Olie is great, or any of his sons. I love my Macho females, he stamps them with tons of muscle and bone, but I would not use him on a heifer. His females have perfect udders, and do a fantastic job of raising a big calf every year. One of my favorite females in the herd of a Pacesetter, another great udder. I would use Pacesetter any time, and on heifers. Dominator adds bone, and rib shape. I have not had one in production, they seem to sell as weanlings around here (people like them). We really like our Movin Forward females, and they do an adequate job in production. I would use Movin Forward on heifers any day, calves easy. Goldmine and Ranch Hand will down size, from what I hear (I have not had any yet). We do not use much of percentage AI sires, but we did buy some Frontier, a new bull they are carrying. He looks good, so we are going to try him. I have also heard good results from GW Paramount. Hope that helps!!!

 

[bpwagner115]

The Final Product progeny I saw sold at a bull sale last year did not impress me....disposition was definitely not a strong point. (I am very surprised to find his DOC rating at 16 with good accuracy)

 

[GodsCountry]

Does anybody have any pics of replacements, or even mature cows from Foresight they could share? Thanks! :cboy:

 

[Beef11]

Ive been around the final product Cattle. I like them, balanced good growthy cattle, they are like all cattle in need of improvement somewhere. As far as the Woodhill Foresight bull I like him but doubt i will ever use him. In this day and age his calving ease direct and bw numbers are too high. I would not be worried about using him on cows but i want calving ease built in top and bottom. From what you are describing look at hoover Dam and Absolute as well.

 

[Jake]

Ive been around the final product Cattle. I like them, balanced good growthy cattle, they are like all cattle in need of improvement somewhere. As far as the Woodhill Foresight bull I like him but doubt i will ever use him. In this day and age his calving ease direct and bw numbers are too high. I would not be worried about using him on cows but i want calving ease built in top and bottom. From what you are describing look at hoover Dam and Absolute as well.

This is just personal preference but I have yet to see a Hoover Dan or cc7 calf I liked.

 

[GodsCountry]

I used Hoover Dam last year on my heifers. They are okay...nothing fancy, but can't blame that solely on the bull. My neighbor used some as well, and with the same results. Calved easy, nothing fancy. Maybe we will see come weaning.

Beef11-I thought the same thing about CED and BW, but the rep said he thought I'd be safe breeding to cows and retaining heifers as long as I kept good notes and used a higher CED bull on his heifers. Those offspring hopefully will have moderate CED and BW. I really do not focus as much on BW as I do CED. I don't mind a higher BW calf, as long as they come out easy. I know a couple of guys that have used New Standard this year so I may check out those calves for next years plans!

Switching gears here a little, would you go back behind the maternal Foresight bull with another good maternal bull if you are trying to produce strong cows, or do you switch focus to growth and carcass traits? I've been struggling with this decision. I like the looks of the Simangus bull Sharper Image, but I worry about his YW and producing super big cows. I know he's a 5 frame bull, but I don't want 1600 mommas. I'm going for something around 1200#. I've also looked up reviews on some of the other top maternal sires in the Angus breed (only because I can't find anything on Simmental cattle) and they seem to be crazy or too big. I'm shooting for 5.5-6.0 frame cows. I am a commercial grower, so I'm not worried about what the EPD's are on my offspring, but I do pay attention to EPD's on the bulls to try and prevent too big of a calf...advice?

 

[Jake]

Switching gears here a little, would you go back behind the maternal Foresight bull with another good maternal bull if you are trying to produce strong cows, or do you switch focus to growth and carcass traits? I've been struggling with this decision. I like the looks of the Simangus bull Sharper Image, but I worry about his YW and producing super big cows. I know he's a 5 frame bull, but I don't want 1600 mommas. I'm going for something around 1200#. I've also looked up reviews on some of the other top maternal sires in the Angus breed (only because I can't find anything on Simmental cattle) and they seem to be crazy or too big. I'm shooting for 5.5-6.0 frame cows. I am a commercial grower, so I'm not worried about what the EPD's are on my offspring, but I do pay attention to EPD's on the bulls to try and prevent too big of a calf...advice?

There are plenty of bulls around that will give you good maternal with adequate performance and carcass. I wouldn't chase any of the growth/carcass bulls, they for the most part are wrecks waiting to happen.