For Seedstock Producers

[Avalon]

This is a question for all the seedstock producers.
The way I see it, breeders in my breed seem to all think that they have no need to casturate many bulls. Pride and or poor selection criteria tells them that "all my bulls are good enough to be working bulls on someone's place". As result I've seen too many inferior bulls from my breed flooding the market. I think it damages the breed. Further, flooding the market just seems to promote the giving away of bulls. What say you?

 

[rocket2222]

You would think that eventually that would catch up with them, and they would lose customers. I don't think saying a bunch of negative things about any one breeder really helps you either, if your there trying to sell bulls to the same customers. Selling better bulls should be the goal for the long term breeder.

 

[ga. prime]

I'm not a seedstock producer, but I know why so many "inferior" bulls are marketed. It's simply because of the huge demand for cheap bulls.

 

[novatech]

In today's world it seems as though money is of far greater importance than quality. Through good marketing it is easy to sell quality when there is none. Knowing this, breeders can sell inferior stock and still make more money than running the bull over the scales. To top it off there are more and more people buying that simply don't know squat about what they are getting. I have seen many big name breeders that put on special sales. They put in a few high quality animals, but mostly animals that should have gone to the packers. People buy them simply because they want to brag about where they came from and even the ridiculous price they gave.

 

[dun]

At most sales I think at least 50% and probably more of the bulls should have been cut as calves. There is a need for lesser quality bulls but not poor quality bulls.

 

[Brandonm2]

At most sales I think at least 50% and probably more of the bulls should have been cut as calves. There is a need for lesser quality bulls but not poor quality bulls.

Agreed, it would have to be a really really strong cow herd for 80% of the bull crop to be herd bull quality. I am not saying that somebody doesn't have such a herd; but I am skeptical.

 

[rocket2222]

I think to many breeders are selling cattle on just their epds, and not the overall quality of the animal, especially today with the big push for better carcass numbers. If they have good carcass epds, there going to sell well, whether the overall quality there or not. From the breeders stand point, it has to be really hard to turn away customers who are willing to pay large sums of money for what should be their culls.

 

[ga. prime]

I'm talking to an elite group here no doubt. My reasoning is: what fool would buy a bull inferior to his overall herd constituency? By that reasoning, no inferior bulls are bought. Barring hidden defects.

 

[rocket2222]

I'm talking to an elite group here no doubt. My reasoning is: what fool would buy a bull inferior to his overall herd constituency? By that reasoning, no inferior bulls are bought. Barring hidden defects.

You must be one of the sellers. :lol:

 

[Avalon]

I'm talking to an elite group here no doubt. My reasoning is: what fool would buy a bull inferior to his overall herd constituency? By that reasoning, no inferior bulls are bought. Barring hidden defects.

The fool that wants to get out cheap! The next year he wants to blame the entire breed for his problems.

 

[MikeC]

There are lots of inferior bulls sold. Feed covers up a lot of flaws.


Generally, bull buyers show up at a sale 30 minutes before sale time and pick out a 2 year old bull that they have never seen before.

When the sale starts, the bull they had originally picked sold a little high for them and they settle for a lower selling one and save a few hundred dollars.

A bull goes through several structural changes during his development phases.

My personal guidelines for bull buying:
1-Visit with your favorite seedstock producer at weaning time.
walk amongst the calves and write down the numbers of your personal preferences. Get the opinion of the seed stock supplier. No one knows a herd as well as he.

2-Visit with him again when the bulls are yearlings and scrutinize again.

I think only about 10-15% of the bulls that hit the ground are worthy of registering and producing seedstock.

 

[dun]

I think only about 10-15% of the bulls that hit the ground are worthy of registering and producing seedstock.

Hooray! A right thinker, but that may be even a little generous. Maybe 10-15% in some herds, but zero in a lot of herds.

 

[CKC1586]

This is a question for all the seedstock producers.
The way I see it, breeders in my breed seem to all think that they have no need to casturate many bulls. Pride and or poor selection criteria tells them that "all my bulls are good enough to be working bulls on someone's place". As result I've seen too many inferior bulls from my breed flooding the market. I think it damages the breed. Further, flooding the market just seems to promote the giving away of bulls. What say you?

You are right. Problem is when folks are trying to get their numbers up bulls are kept intact and sold or used for breeding. Not so horrible if that less than bull is used as a terminal sire but still not a good idea in my opinion. Those bulls that don't "cut the mustard" should be CUT!

 

[bigbull338]

a seedstock producer should only keep bulls that he would breed his cows to.as well as the type of bulls he would buy.i wont keep or raise a bull that isnt the best.because the best bull for the money an bloodlines is what id want.

 

[ga. prime]

There's a lot of validity to Mike's excellent and mostly undebateable post. But, when Mike and dun say that only 10%-15% of bulls hitting the ground are of registerable seedstock worthiness, I must take slight exception. 10%-15% may only be worthy to use in their herds, but a much higher percentage would be an improvement to a vast number of small time cow calf operations producing crossbred calves for the feeder market. Presumably and hopefully, that is who is buying the low end bulls.

 

[bigbull338]

There's a lot of validity to Mike's excellent and mostly undebateable post. But, when Mike and dun say that only 10%-15% of bulls hitting the ground are of registerable seedstock worthiness, I must take slight exception. 10%-15% may only be worthy to use in their herds, but a much higher percentage would be an improvement to a vast number of small time cow calf operations producing crossbred calves for the feeder market. Presumably and hopefully, that is who is buying the low end bulls.

i agree with you there.most small cattle herds are crossbreds.so a good quality reg bull can improve their herds.an said bull maybe a cull to a guy looking for a high powered bull to go on a reg herd.

 

[Bluestem]

This got me thinking a little. I may ask a few more questions in the future of my seed stock producers. 1. How many steers have you sold this year?

 

[DOC HARRIS]

This got me thinking a little. I may ask a few more questions in the future of my seed stock producers. 1. How many steers have you sold this year?

Blluestem- You are absolutely correct! Other questions to ask -What did your steers score? What did they bring? May I see your bulls Momma?

DOC HARRIS

 

[SEC]

I think those are excellent questions, we have taken the route with our PB cows that if I wouldn't want the cow to be the mother of a commercial bull I bought than I doubt anyone else would either. Likewise, there isn't a cow on the place that I would be embarrassed to show a breeder either. If they are worth getting shy about they need to go.

Nothing to hide!
Most important besides fertility are UDDERS and FEET! If they aren't good enough they get shipped or used as recips!