Food for Thought, Vaccines

[randiliana]

Here is an interesting article about vaccinations in horses. I'm interested in what others think, if this is a possibility with cattle.

Now, I believe in vaccinations, and we vaccinate our cattle. But this made me wonder if it is possible that we are over-vaccinating as well.

Or, perhaps this whole article is BS?

http://hl.depaoloequineconcepts.com/?q=node%2F6

 

[Bigfoot]

As a horse owner, I almost hate to get the whole horse people discussion going. I will say many horse owners do lots of things regarding husbandry to excess. It's not surprising to me, that they would over vaccinate.

 

[randiliana]

But, really, I don't want this to turn into a horse/horse people discussion. Just wondering, if humans and horses can be vaccinated early in their life (and have long lasting immunity) is this also true of cattle. Do we really need to be vaccinating the COW herd annually once they have had their immunizations and boosters?

 

[branguscowgirl]

I have not read the article yet, but just wanted to add that they have been talking about this with dog vaccines for quite some time also. Some vets, (very few) have reduced their vaccination protocols. Even the rabies vaccine for dogs is being stretched out to 3 years now. A vet told me that it is no different than a 1 yr. vac..

 

[Quigly]

Yeah, the article is fairly questionable. He argues not to give rhinopneumonitis vaccine because a mare can only abort once due to this disease. One abortion in a horse can be a major loss. Also, when you see that much talk about Mercury, you know what angle they are coming from. Also, people get vaccine boosters later in life. You need a flu shot every year, not just because the strains change but also because the duration of immunity is not good.

There has been a fair bit of research regarding duration of immunity for some diseases. Diseases like rabies and black leg tend to build fairly long immunity, probably don't need to vaccinate for that every year. Lepto on the other hand does not have a long duration of immunity, along with things like pinkeye, anthrax, even some respiratory organisms, especially BRSV.

Keep vaccinating your cows. You decide to go easy for a few years and end up with a couple BVD abortions, you will see the value in keep up on vaccination. You can still use common sense and not vaccinate for disease you dont need protection from.

 

[Quigly]

Most vets should be switched to using canine rabies every three years. The first dose by law still has to be boosters within 12 months, but if done within that window most vets will call that a three year vaccine. While some diseases dogs are vaccinated against provide protection for 3 years or more, some still need to be boostered annually. Duration studies have shown that FeLV in cats and Lepto in dogs needs boostered annually.

 

[bmoore87]

Some vaccines probably dont need boostered every year but from what I skimmed in the article the only side effects he mentioned were the local musclesite reactions, self limiting fever/ lethargy and the supposed mercury issue (which seem like a small price to pay for stopping something from dying). This sounds a little bit to much like the anti vaccination articles I have read about for humans saying you need to pick and choose the vaccines you give your kids because they harm them.

I wouldnt change from what the label recommends until shown some studies that support this idea, especially since the person writing this article is trying to sell you a service.

 

[highgrit]

Don't we all know a few folks with cattle that give no vaccines? I know 3 folks within a few miles of me, and they have no more issues than we do probably less.

 

[randiliana]

Hey, good replies everyone! Very good points as well.

 

[talltimber]

Don't we all know a few folks with cattle that give no vaccines? I know 3 folks within a few miles of me, and they have no more issues than we do probably less.

Yes, and I hate them. :lol2:

 

[MO_cows]

Since they didn't cite any actual research, I take it with a grain of salt.

 

[cow pollinater]

Just wondering, if humans and horses can be vaccinated early in their life (and have long lasting immunity) is this also true of cattle. Do we really need to be vaccinating the COW herd annually once they have had their immunizations and boosters?

I think so.It's a pretty common practice here to only vaccinate young stock. Once the cow gets bred up with her second calf she's off running around in the hills in places where the handling facilities aren't conducive to vaccinating every cow every year.
I've been told that with MLV vaccines there is some transfer from sucking calf to cow as well so if you vaccinate calves with MLV then you're also exposing the cows. I doubt that's anywhere near as good as a metered dose of vaccine but if she's already had multiple exposures it makes sense to me that it would be enough to keep her immune.

 

[boondocks]

Since they didn't cite any actual research, I take it with a grain of salt.

:nod: :nod:

Also, as we are now seeing, many humans do need boosters that we're not getting.


Sure wish they would hurry up and get a human Lyme vaccine back on the market. It's really bad here now.

 

[Big Cheese]

Our mentor here that runs 600 momma cows doesn't use any vaccines. He gives his calves Black Leg when they are born and that's it. But he runs a closed herd. He raises all of his replacements and bulls and very rarely brings in outside cattle. He did just buy a few Longhorn bulls and heifers a year or so ago because his cows were getting to much Charolais in them and getting to big but made sure they came from closed herds as well and he may have had them vaccinated I'm not sure. He never has any problems from what I hear with diseases. He does use antibiotics and things like that when they are needed.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Local feeder sale here last week - vac'd calves brought an avg of $307 more per head over non vaccinated.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Our mentor here that runs 600 momma cows doesn't use any vaccines. He gives his calves Black Leg when they are born and that's it. But he runs a closed herd.

I don't see how a 'black leg' vaccine would be effective in a newborn, considering they do not have a developed immune system yet, and they recieve antibodies from the colostrum.

Perhaps there's a new type of vaccine available that I'm not aware of, I have not looked into it.

'Black leg', (a clostridial organism) is found in the soil and not necessarily something that would be passed from cow to cow.

 

[Big Cheese]

Alpha 7 works in newborns. That's just what he does been doin it forever.

 

[Quigly]

Alpha 7 might work on calves, but it's probably not the greatest immunity. If you are desperate I would use it over other products, but it's efficacy is questionable. Calves certainly do have developed immune systems when they are born, they can mount immune responses to diseases while still in the cow. It doesn't have much memory until you get colostral maternal antibodies, which will interfere with any attempts to vaccinate.

 

[Koffi Babone]

In Canada, there is a difference between the one year and 3 year rabies vaccine. The label actually has a "3" for the 3 year vaccine. As in the US, the 1st dose needs to be boostered within 12 months. The European Union also has the same condition.

Concerning the article by DePaolo:

"Humans are only vaccinated as babies and children but some farms vaccinate their horses 6 plus times a year for a horse's entire life."
The first part is not entirely true. I can guarantee you that a travel clinic will booster you for tetanus before international travel and that the ER doc will booster you for tetanus if you happen to poke yourself with a nail or other unclean object.

I'd really like to see this author post some references. I find it hard to believe that someone was able to associate side effects to a vaccine 30 days post injection, I'd like to know what criteria they used.

"Some veterinarians may elect not to vaccinate horses within 3 weeks of international shipment."
This part is misleading. Conditions for international shipment are dictated by the importing country (the importing country is bringing the animal into their country, so they get to decide what they want and don't want), not the vet doing the export related work.

Thimerosal is toxic and contains mercury, yes, but it is not the same as methylmercury, the compound that is responsible for Minamata disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease). Whereas methylmercury bioaccumulates, thimerosal is excreted by the body. Trying to imply that both are similar is like saying ethyl alcohol (the one you drink) and methyl alcohol (causes blindness) are similar.

"Antibody titers are a way to know if your horse is in need of any vaccines."
The author does not mention that this can be very expensive. The vet needs to draw blood, most probably send it away for titration analysis and the client has to come back a few weeks later for the interpretation of the result. It is often cheaper (in terms of time and money) to just vaccinate.