• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

first non-sucker

Help Support CattleToday:

angus9259

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
2,834
Reaction score
0
Location
Michigan
10 years and never had one that wouldn't suck. Stood their with the tit right on its nose. Wouldn't open his mouth and suck.

Had to pump a quart of colostrix into him. That was traumatic. For a 60 lb non sucking calf brand new calf, he sure can put up a fight. Not sure who's more worn out. Also got the bo-se and calf guard into him.

I can't find the thread on calves not sucking . . . can someone pull it up for me?
 

Nesikep

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,030
Reaction score
140
Location
Lillooet, BC, Canada
sometimes it helps if you let them suck on your fingers a while, though if you fed him a quart of colostrum, you'd think that would kickstart him... if possible, get the cow in the chute and see if you can get a teat into his mouth, that's about as much as I can suggest... though one thing I might try next time is to give them a few drops of lemon juice or something.. something to sour their mouth and see if it gets them moving a bit
 

Joy of Texas

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
501
Reaction score
0
Location
Texas
I'm not sure what they call it. But call your vet and see if they have a "dumb calf "shot. Every once in awhile we end up with a calf that won't suck. I call the vet and he'll fix up a shot for me. It's 10 cc you give 5 cc. the first day and 5cc. the next day. It does work.
I do know it has vit.B-12 in it and some kind of antibiotic. Keep tubing the calf colostrum.
 

Joy of Texas

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
501
Reaction score
0
Location
Texas
Just a thought if your vet does not have this type of shot I'll give my vets phone number and maybe he can tell you or your vet what is in it.
 
OP
A

angus9259

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
2,834
Reaction score
0
Location
Michigan
Joy of Texas":3lb3pli1 said:
Just a thought if your vet does not have this type of shot I'll give my vets phone number and maybe he can tell you or your vet what is in it.

Thanks. I'll call tomorrow.
 
OP
A

angus9259

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
2,834
Reaction score
0
Location
Michigan
Joy of Texas":39wshnt0 said:
I'm not sure what they call it. But call your vet and see if they have a "dumb calf "shot. Every once in awhile we end up with a calf that won't suck. I call the vet and he'll fix up a shot for me. It's 10 cc you give 5 cc. the first day and 5cc. the next day. It does work.
I do know it has vit.B-12 in it and some kind of antibiotic. Keep tubing the calf colostrum.

Wonder if I could get a "dumb farmer" shot while I'm there.
 

Joy of Texas

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
501
Reaction score
0
Location
Texas
angus9259":bjmvhctu said:
Joy of Texas":bjmvhctu said:
I'm not sure what they call it. But call your vet and see if they have a "dumb calf "shot. Every once in awhile we end up with a calf that won't suck. I call the vet and he'll fix up a shot for me. It's 10 cc you give 5 cc. the first day and 5cc. the next day. It does work.
I do know it has vit.B-12 in it and some kind of antibiotic. Keep tubing the calf colostrum.

Wonder if I could get a "dumb farmer" shot while I'm there.
:lol2: :lol2: No I tried to get one for the old man.
Check your pm.
 

randiliana

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
4,807
Reaction score
0
Location
Saskatchewan, Canada
Here is what I do with a non-sucker. It requires a bit of work, but it is less stressful, and has worked for me every time.

I have never yet been able to force a calf to suck. If the instinct is not there, it seems it is not there.

So, rather than fighting with them, I simply tube them. Make sure they get at least one, and preferably 2 good feeds of colostrum in the first 12 hours. Then I move them to either cow's milk (if I can easily milk her) or milk replacer. Mama cow's milk is preferable, as it reduces the chance of you having problems with her accepting the calf later. But if she is really hard to handle, I go the easy route and use milk replacer.

Tube the calf for 2-3 days, depending on how strong it is. I usually feed 3 times a day, morning, early afternoon and mid evening. On the last day (day 2 or 3) I don't feed them in the evening. Leave the calf in a small pen with mama, and in the morning he should have gotten hungry enough for that instinct to kick in.

So far, this has worked for me every time I have had to do it. It is a pain in the butt, but it works. You don't get stressed, and you don't stress either the calf or the cow.

The reason I feed for 2-3 days, is to give the calf a chance to build up a bit of reserve, so that when you leave it overnight, it has enough strength to last the night, and to get up and look for dinner. If you were to do this on day one you may end up with an even weaker calf that you would have to mess with for even longer.
 

dun

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
47,334
Reaction score
1
Location
MO Ozarks
angus9259":een3f2v7 said:
Joy of Texas":een3f2v7 said:
Just a thought if your vet does not have this type of shot I'll give my vets phone number and maybe he can tell you or your vet what is in it.

Thanks. I'll call tomorrow.
The dumb sucker shot is either MU-SE or BO-SE, I can never remember which is for calves and which is for cows.
 
OP
A

angus9259

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
2,834
Reaction score
0
Location
Michigan
dun":234mkpyo said:
The dumb sucker shot is either MU-SE or BO-SE, I can never remember which is for calves and which is for cows.

Yeah, I always thought it was bo-se. I give every newborn 3 cc. Maybe I'll give him a booster tomorrow if he's not around.
 

Nesikep

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,030
Reaction score
140
Location
Lillooet, BC, Canada
are MU-SE and BO-SE acronyms for something? contain SElenium maybe?.. we give vit A,D, and E/selenium to an calf that's not lively
 

dun

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
47,334
Reaction score
1
Location
MO Ozarks
Nesikep":21ej0u5c said:
are MU-SE and BO-SE acronyms for something? contain SElenium maybe?.. we give vit A,D, and E/selenium to an calf that's not lively

They both are a combination of Selenium and vitamin E
 
OP
A

angus9259

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
2,834
Reaction score
0
Location
Michigan
Things don't look good. Checked on him late last night - he looked exhausted, but his head was up. This morning (5 am) he looks even more tired and his mouth is cold - though it looked like he'd moved around a little in the night. I have him in the truck with the heat on and a hot pad. Gonna run him to the vet if there's one open xmas eve.
 

CKC1586

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
4,351
Reaction score
0
Location
Sunfield, Michigan USA
You probably have already tried this but:
have had to restrain mom and physically put the dumb bull calf's mouth on the tit and squeeze his mouth on the tit and usually this will get the idea across to him what he needs to do. Had one that we had to do this milking ritual for 3 or 4 days before he "caught on".
I hope your little guy catches on. Good luck.
 
OP
A

angus9259

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
2,834
Reaction score
0
Location
Michigan
Well, we made it to the vet. He seemed to improve with heat. Vet gave him dex, bo-se, iv fluids and electrolytes, tubed him, etc . . . said he lost oxygen during birth . . . that's what causes "dumb calf" . . . calves have to varying degrees with varying degrees of resultant brain and heart damage. Some come around, some don't. He improved some more at the vets but still, the best he could manage was just to stand there. brought him home, tubed him again and he died a couple hours later. So it goes.
 

Frankie

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
6,915
Reaction score
0
Location
Oklahoma
I'm sorry you lost him. But you did everything you could. Some animals are just not survivors. :(
 

Joy of Texas

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
501
Reaction score
0
Location
Texas
angus9259":23zmeah6 said:
Well, we made it to the vet. He seemed to improve with heat. Vet gave him dex, bo-se, iv fluids and electrolytes, tubed him, etc . . . said he lost oxygen during birth . . . that's what causes "dumb calf" . . . calves have to varying degrees with varying degrees of resultant brain and heart damage. Some come around, some don't. He improved some more at the vets but still, the best he could manage was just to stand there. brought him home, tubed him again and he died a couple hours later. So it goes.
I am sorry for your loss. I agree with Frankie sometimes you do everything you can and some just are not going to make it.
By this I did learn what causes "dumb calf",which I never knew what caused it before. I have had a few over the years and never knew it was caused by lack of oxygen. I know when I have a cow due I am there to wait and see how the calf does. If it is not up and sucking within 30 minutes I am heading to the house . I'll fix a tubing bottle with colostrum. I'll tube the calf and wait. With in a couple of hours if the calf is not coming around I'll call the vet get a shot and fix a tubing bottle of electrolyes. I'll tube the calf first and then give them a shot. So far I have not lost one.
 

dun

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
47,334
Reaction score
1
Location
MO Ozarks
Joy of Texas":16gtvay3 said:
By this I did learn what causes "dumb calf",which I never knew what caused it before. I have had a few over the years and never knew it was caused by lack of oxygen.

It isn;t always caused by lack of oxygen. That is just one passibiity, that is the reason that usually one of the questions first asked is was it a hard/long delivery. Selenium deficiency can also cause it as can poor vigor in the calf for other reasons.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
11,633
Reaction score
160
Location
Central Upstate New York
BoSe & MuSe and both Selenium & Vit E - MuSe is higher concentration - 1cc / 200#
BoSe is like 2.75-3.75 / 100# - BUT I always give 4 cc/ 100#
I remember the differences by M for MOMMA & B for BABY.
You can use either one, but it's a lot harder to get the dosage right with the MuSe with a calf under 100#.
You can also give it SQ or IM.
If I have a calf that isn't lively, I give it IM - otherwise I give it SQ.
And I disagree about putting the calf on the cow right away if the calf is "puny". Don't do anything to stress the calf. Tube it.
Sorry it didn't make it.
 

Latest posts

Top